From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Oct 7 22:13:47 1996 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 00:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #171 tariqas-digest Monday, 30 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 171 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rashid Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:23:46 +0400 Subject: I feel homeless! To Jaquie Jacquie Weller wrote: > > > Is there any Sheikh on this net who could respond to the pain I feel when I > as a new sufi realitively am viewed as maybe not even a sufi and I see that > there is not even any concensus on this. This is how I feel. I feel > homeless. I feel everyone does not know what a tremendous step it is for > someone like me in the western culture to be even exposed to this. Right > when I learn to, take a big step and say the name Allah which always before > this for me has been God, then I hear this is not good enough. Put yourself Hello Jacquie I am not a Sheikh, but I will tell you what my Shaikh told me. Sufism has been there ever since the birth of humanity in one form or another, because human nature is the same. It has a worshipping nature and has always longed for Union with its Creator. Allah when created the souls, asked them: Am I not your Lord/Cherisher. All of them said: Yes. Thus in spiritual sense everyone of us is a Muslim. All Creations of Allah are Muslim in the sense that they are in a state of complete submission every since their creation. River has been appointed to flow and it is perpetually flowing and so on. Human beings on the other when came to this world, they chose to follow certain paths but that worshipping nature kept driving them to search for the truth. It took various forms. Some adopted different means of satisfying that worshipping nature and were thus led astray. Others found the truth. Amongst them there are hindu Sadhoos, Jewish and Christain Raahibs, Muslim Sufis and so on. They had the same common bond. All of them are/were in search of the same truth, had the same longing. and they found the truth to some extent. And when they found they had no choice but to become Monotheist i.e. to beleive in the first part of Muslim Kalima: There is no god worthy of worship except Allah. Quite a lot of these MOnotheists discovered along the way that to gain further spiritual elation and advancement, they must confess the faith of their existing Prophet. This comes automatically. Once you taste the sweetness of that spiritual enlightenment, you do not want to stop the progress. As it says in Quran: There is no compulsion in religion. No one can compel such sufis and nothing can keep such sincere souls from accepting the truth. Let me finish this story with an anecdote. A hindu came to my Shaikh, who lives in a small village in Pakistan. He said: Muslims say that Islam is a true and Universal religion. I want you to prove it through my own relious preachings." My Shaikh accepted him as his student. He dictated this man some lines of peotry from one of the biggest Hindu Sadhu, Bhagat Kabeer, which read something like this: O Sadhu there is darkness all around you But inside you is the fortune and inside is your judge Inside you are seven seas and inside are the channels of flow Listen to me O Sadhu, your Lord is inside you. Don't go to the mosque nor to the temple Visualise your lord sitting at home The statue which does not speak Why waste your faith worshipping it. The he adviced him to practice Breathholding exercises and meditation accoring to hindu theories. His family did not object because whatever he was doing was in accordance with the hindu teachings. Soon he started having dreams and visualisations. He saw Allah in Arabic written on the horizan. Climax came when one day while travelling in a bus he saw the entire Kalima :La ilaha illaAllah Muhammadur Rasoolullah in the form of a light travelling alongside the bus. None else was aware of it. He begged to be admitted into Islam, but Shaikh advised him to be patient. The man started praying salaat on his own, hiding in his house. To cut the long story short, 2 years later Shaikh sent him to a Mufti to officially embrace Islam. This delay of 2 years was because the man was so determined that he had decided to leave his wife and 4 small children, but due to this dealy the whole family ultimately embraced islam. Remember. Pushups etc done by anyone results in bodybuilding, irrespective of faith. Similarly there are some spiritual exercises which when performed properly will give you the same result. Fasting, Meditations in the small hours of morning and Remembering Allah/God/Bhagwan etc. Whichever name you call him with, if it is He who in your vision, you will get the required result, irrespective of your confessed faith. Then the real test comes to test you how sincere you are with your Lord, how sincerely you are longing for Him/His Love. Then you will have no choice but to confess the Universal faith. > I have to admit that I am discouraged, and feel very lonly here. Kaffea lalla Dear Jaquie, Just keep it up. Do not feel depressed. If you are sincere with your Creator, it will come automatically on its own time. You can't avoid it. Till such time don't pay attention to various disturbing voices. Best of Luck Rashid ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:55:47 EDT Subject: Re: Peace -was natural sufi Hello Yunus Earl, [...] > I feel embarrassed to >even write this or think I can change what is going on but look at >the world if we can not be at peace among our selves what will be >reflected elswhere [...] If we don't all believe that we can make a difference, well, we're probably all in deep stuff! :) YOU can change the world... we all can... by changing ourselves. Thanks for the reminders! love & peace, carol ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:55:47 EDT Subject: Re: failure? / delivering babies Hello Lily! :) [...] > It is the midwife who insistently nudges you toward Truth, >regardless of how loud you whine or curse. The one who makes you feel good is the > anesthesiologist. > > Lily I'm not sure what the "intended meaning" here is, but the way i see it is that i do not /want/ to be anesthetized! ... I want to experience it (childbirth, life!) , to know, to learn from that which may at times seem painful! I do not want to be numb! Oh, of course, sometimes i /think/ i want comfort, and familiarity of the way i've always done things... but, please, please, please no anesthesia for me!! <> Lily, i love this analogy! :) thank you, carol ------------------------------ From: Asim Jalis Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 17:43:25 CDT Subject: Rumi There is some confusion about whether Rumi meant one thing or whether he meant another thing when he wrote a particular verse. But Rumi doesn't have to be consistent or even correct. Rather his skill lies in saying things powerfully and well. So perhaps when a person quotes Rumi he is really saying: this is what I mean, and these words from Rumi even though they are (probably) out-of-context express rather well what I wish to say. ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 07:58:56 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: The Oil Lamp AsSalamu 'alaikum w.w. The famous ayat an-nur or light verse is in verse 35 of Surah An-Nur beginning with "Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth..." Imam Gazzali wrote one interpretation of this light verse in the Mishkat al Anwar translated by Gairdner.It was published by Sh.Mohd.Ashraf publications . At 10:50 9/29/96 -0600, you wrote: >Salam brothers and sisters in Allah, > >Can someone please help me? I know there is a wonderful passage >in the Koran about lighting a lamp in a niche, but I cannot seem >to find it - can someone tell me which chapter it is in please? >Thank you, > >Health, happiness and wisdom to all >Ayesha > ********** > >Ayesha_abdelghani > > ~ > ~ > ~ ~ > ~ ~ > ~ > >The birds have vanished into the sky >and now the last cloud drains away. >We sit together, the mountain and me >Until only the mountain remains. > Li Po. > > ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 07:58:58 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: doing Good [Re: What is a natural Sufi? Salam. "Surely, those who believe and those who follow the Jewish faith, the Christians and the Sabians , whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and acts righteously shall have their reward with their Lord ,and shall have nothing to fear , nor shall they grieve " Quran 2 : 62 / Surah Baqarah verse 62. At 14:01 9/29/96 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 96-09-28 11:34:21 EDT, you write: > ><< Whosoever believes and does Good , be it Jew , Christian or Sabean , he > need not fear , he need not grieve.." (Extract of meaning of a Quranic >Verse) > >> >thank you. what verse is this from? >Jinavamsa > ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:01:42 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: The Oil Lamp Salam.The verse known as Ayat an Nur or Light verse is found in Chapter 24 verse 35.The chaper is known as Surah an Nur or Light Chapter. At 10:50 9/29/96 -0600, you wrote: >Salam brothers and sisters in Allah, > >Can someone please help me? I know there is a wonderful passage >in the Koran about lighting a lamp in a niche, but I cannot seem >to find it - can someone tell me which chapter it is in please? >Thank you, > >Health, happiness and wisdom to all >Ayesha > ********** > >Ayesha_abdelghani > > ~ > ~ > ~ ~ > ~ ~ > ~ > >The birds have vanished into the sky >and now the last cloud drains away. >We sit together, the mountain and me >Until only the mountain remains. > Li Po. > > ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 20:26:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr. Ibrahim Pourhadi & Rumi's 'Kolliyat-e Shams' [Re: sufi words naturally Dear Jinavamsa and friends, I was able to reach Dr. Pourhadi at home over the weekend. He tells me the following: The quotation is not his (he had given it to me) but that of Reynold Nicholson, whom he maintains has done the finest Rumi translations into English. The quotation is indeed from Kolliyat-e Shams. Further there are numerous other examples of this work in the Library of Congress with essentially the same translation (he thought off the top of his head about 70). These are not limited to English translations but include Arabic and Turkish works (he is accomplished in these languages as well). He also has, I think I remember from a previous conversation, original and ancient copies of texts in the Persian with that same passage. He comments that Ms Schimmel has not done her homework thoroughly and this is not the first time he has come up against her misinformation. While she does speak some Farsi, she cannot compare with any of the recognized serious scholars of Rumi, nor can she be considered a serious scholar of the Persian language. Dr. Pourhadi, who is a regular attendee at our Sufi meetings here, has generously offered the resources of the library to anyone who will take a serious interest in pursuing this matter. He explained it will not take much of his time as there have been many over the years who disputed the authenticity of the passage and he has the research ready and available. He did not recall the exact page from memory in the Nicholson translation, but invites anyone in our Tariqas group to contact him at the library: Dr. Ibraham V. Pourhadi Area Specialist Library of Congress John Adams Building #128 3rd & Pennsylvania Ave., SE Washington, DC 20540 Business (202)707-5675 Fax (202)707-1724 Dr. Pourhadi has also made a lifelong study of the history of Sufism and will be happy to discuss anybody's theories about when it began and where. He can trace it thousands of years with documents at hand in the library, where his section has some 500,000 volumes of ancient text. He prefers to answer written requests, rather than by phone. Warm regards to all, At 02:01 PM 9/29/96 -0400, you wrote: >hello Simon, Maharaj James and all, >Would you have the exact ref. (as in title of text, pp., etc.) of the >Pourhadi translation? Also, is the ghazal/verse in question cited there as >coming from the work Kolliyat-e Shams, or from elsewhere? Does Schimmel >herself know of his work? >Maybe they could clarify some of this in they collaborated (=worked >together). >in peace, >Jinavamsa > > >In a message dated 96-09-27 21:17:25 EDT, you write: > ><<<< > The translation which I have submitted is by Dr. Ibrahim Pourhadi of the > Library of Congress, who will defend his translation if anybody wants to > seriously contest it. His native tounge is Farsi and he has his doctorate > from Princeton in Sanskrit, while being fluent in seven other languages. He > has made a life-long study of Rumi. Any takers? > Simon wrote: > > > >This poem, which shows the mystic beyond time and space, beyond the > >created borders between races and religions, has often been repeated in > >the West; however it is not found in the critical edition of the > >'Kolliyat-e Shams', and resembles in its whole tenor rather the > >effusions of slightly later poets in the Persian and Turkish speaking > >areas, who would repeat similar ideas time and again. > >(end of quote) > > > >That's all for now. > > > >Salaams to one and all > > > >Simon Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: Ayesha Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:28:35 -0600 Subject: Re: The Oil Lamp Salam, Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I thought it was in that chapter, but had temporarily mislaid the exact place!!!! Now I have it, thanks. Ayesha At 08:01 AM 9/30/96 +0800, you wrote: >Salam.The verse known as Ayat an Nur or Light verse is found in Chapter 24 >verse 35.The chaper is known as Surah an Nur or Light Chapter. >At 10:50 9/29/96 -0600, you wrote: >>Salam brothers and sisters in Allah, >> >>Can someone please help me? I know there is a wonderful passage >>in the Koran about lighting a lamp in a niche, but I cannot seem >>to find it - can someone tell me which chapter it is in please? >>Thank you, >> >>Health, happiness and wisdom to all >>Ayesha >> ********** >> >>Ayesha_abdelghani >> >> ~ >> ~ >> ~ ~ >> ~ ~ >> ~ >> >>The birds have vanished into the sky >>and now the last cloud drains away. >>We sit together, the mountain and me >>Until only the mountain remains. >> Li Po. >> >> > > > ------------------------------ From: "M. Peabody" Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 18:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Sufism and bay'at Salamalaikum to Imaan and everyone else: I am new to this tariqa list, my mother has been on it for a while. I just wanted to share my experience of meeting my Sheikh and taking hand with the Jerrahi order for those who are interested. I was raised Shi'a Muslim. My mom married a man from Iran when I was 4 years old and up until a few years ago I didn't really do much research on the different schools of thought and didn't know anything about the tariqa or Sufism. In 1993 we moved to Seattle from our community in Washington D.C. and I began to feel very isolated because all my friends were back East and most of the young Muslims I came across here were new converts and interested in discussing issues that had become very boring to me. So I prayed to Allah to guide me and open new doors to me. One day a sister who I didn't know very well asked me if I wanted to come to a different Islamic gathering so I said sure. And that night I met my sheikh and heard Thikr and various Turkish du'as sung for the first time. At the time I thought it all very strange and wondered why these people felt it necessary to add all these prayers and du'as to the already existing ones so I was suspicious that they were some sort of weird Islamic sect. So I didn't go back for a while but I told my mother about it and she began to attend their meetings. I didn't go again for a few months but during that time I couldn't forget the way that I felt the sheikh could see right through me. But of course my ego got in the way and kept making me feel doubtful. Then when my mother continued to go to their meetings and took a trip to Istanbul, Turkey to meet the grand Sheikh and took hand I started to think maybe this is a good group after all. Then I read some books about Sufism in general and the Jerrahi order and decided to continue attending the meetings on Friday nights. As more and more time went by I started looking forward to the meetings more and more and I enjoyed the sheikhs lectures more than before. I began to call him when I had any questions or concerns and he always had the answers I was looking for. After two years of continuously going to the meetings I had a very vivid dream about my sheikh. He was shaking me and telling me to wake up. At this point I knew in my heart that it was time to take hand, I think I knew before that but the dream really clarified things for me. Words can't describe the sheikh-dervish relationship accurately because it is different for each person. For myself, I feel that this man is the best example of how a man should behave and treat others that I've ever met in my whole life. I will Inshallah remain devoted to him for the rest of my life, he's much more than just a friend or mentor. He's a teacher of the Real Knowledge that can only be discovered if your heart is open. Ask Allah sincerely to help you find your Teacher and if it's meant to happen it will. Peace to all Miranda ------------------------------ From: Simon Bryquer Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 23:52:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Dr. Ibrahim Pourhadi & Rumi's 'Kolliyat-e Shams' [Re: sufi words naturally Greetings one and all and Mr.McCaig. This is my last post on the subject. Ms.Schimmel does not need me to defend her. She is a respected scholar in the field and her body of work stands on its own merit for anyone to examine and verify. Her works in the field accepted across the board are: - - Mystical Dimensions of Islam, University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill 1975 - - The Symbolic Language of Maulana Jalal ad-Din Rumi, Studies in Islam I, New Delhi 1964 - - The Triumphal Sun: A Study of the Works of Jalaloddin Rumi, East-West Publications/Persian Studies Series -1980 I just listed these because they deal with the specific topic. She taught the subject at Harvard. Ms. Schimmel has written countless other books and learned articles on the subject. Could Mr.McCaig gives us accesible and available references to Dr.Ibrahim Pourhadi's work on this matter. For Mr.McCaig to publicly make the following statement: >"He comments that Ms Schimmel has not done her homework thoroughly and > this is not the first time he has come up against her misinformation." I can only take Mr.McCaig word that Dr. Pourhadi said this. But it nevertheless shows the same sloppines and irresponsibility Mr.McCaig exhibited a few months back in regards to Dr.Nasr. Also you quote me me as having written the text below. > Simon wrote: > > This poem, which shows the mystic beyond time and space, beyond the > created borders between races and religions, has often been > repeated in the West; however it is not found in the critical edition > > of the 'Kolliyat-e Shams', and resembles in its whole tenor rather the > effusions of slightly later poets in the Persian and Turkish speaking > areas, who would repeat similar ideas time and again. (end of quote) > This was made quite clear that it was quote from Ms.Schimmel's 'Triumphal Sun' For me Mr.McCaig, you have absolutely no credibility on this or any other level and you might be called to make another public apology for putting forth false information in addition to insulting Ms.Schimmel. Simon Bryquer ====================================================================== James McCaig wrote: > > Dear Jinavamsa and friends, > > I was able to reach Dr. Pourhadi at home over the weekend. He tells me > > the following: > > The quotation is not his (he had given it to me) but that of Reynold > Nicholson, whom he maintains has done the finest Rumi translations > into > English. The quotation is indeed from Kolliyat-e Shams. Further there > are numerous other examples of this work in the Library of Congress > with > essentially the same translation (he thought off the top of his head > about 70). These are not limited to English translations but include > Arabic and Turkish works (he is accomplished in these languages as > well). > He also has, I think I remember from a previous conversation, original > > and ancient copies of texts in the Persian with that same passage. > > He comments that Ms Schimmel has not done her homework thoroughly and > this is not the first time he has come up against her misinformation. > While she does speak some Farsi, she cannot compare with any of the > recognized serious scholars of Rumi, nor can she be considered a > serious > scholar of the Persian language. > > Dr. Pourhadi, who is a regular attendee at our Sufi meetings here, has > > generously offered the resources of the library to anyone who will > take a > serious interest in pursuing this matter. He explained it will not > take > much of his time as there have been many over the years who disputed > the > authenticity of the passage and he has the research ready and > available. > > He did not recall the exact page from memory in the Nicholson > translation, but invites anyone in our Tariqas group to contact him at > > the library: > > Dr. Ibraham V. Pourhadi > Area Specialist > Library of Congress > John Adams Building #128 > 3rd & Pennsylvania Ave., SE > Washington, DC 20540 > > Business (202)707-5675 > Fax (202)707-1724 > > Dr. Pourhadi has also made a lifelong study of the history of Sufism > and > will be happy to discuss anybody's theories about when it began and > where. He can trace it thousands of years with documents at hand in > the > library, where his section has some 500,000 volumes of ancient text. > He > prefers to answer written requests, rather than by phone. > > Warm regards to all, > > At 02:01 PM 9/29/96 -0400, you wrote: > >hello Simon, Maharaj James and all, > >Would you have the exact ref. (as in title of text, pp., etc.) of the > > >Pourhadi translation? Also, is the ghazal/verse in question cited > there > as > >coming from the work Kolliyat-e Shams, or from elsewhere? Does > Schimmel > >herself know of his work? > >Maybe they could clarify some of this in they collaborated (=worked > >together). > >in peace, > >Jinavamsa > > > > > >In a message dated 96-09-27 21:17:25 EDT, you write: > > > ><< > > The translation which I have submitted is by Dr. Ibrahim Pourhadi of > > the > > Library of Congress, who will defend his translation if anybody > wants > to > > seriously contest it. His native tounge is Farsi and he has his > doctorate > > from Princeton in Sanskrit, while being fluent in seven other > languages. He > > has made a life-long study of Rumi. Any takers? > > > > Simon wrote: > > > > > >This poem, which shows the mystic beyond time and space, beyond the > > > >created borders between races and religions, has often been > repeated > in > > >the West; however it is not found in the critical edition of the > > >'Kolliyat-e Shams', and resembles in its whole tenor rather the > > >effusions of slightly later poets in the Persian and Turkish > speaking > > > >areas, who would repeat similar ideas time and again. > > >(end of quote) > > > > > >That's all for now. > > > > > >Salaams to one and all > > > > > >Simon > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington > Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center > Bookstore > United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi > > jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 00:51:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr. Ibrahim Pourhadi & Rumi's 'Kolliyat-e Shams' [Re: sufi words naturally This may not be my last post on the subject. Presumably you (or Schimmel) will take up this offer from Dr. Pourhadi. Will you be kind enough to favor us with copies of your correspondence to him? I will request the same of him and post his answers to the group. Dr. Pourhadi enjoys a world-wide reputation and has given his office address and number for you to find the truth if it holds any interest at all for you. You will not be happy with it when you find it, I fear, and one has no doubt that you will be voicing your intolerance soon again on another, but similar subject. One almost looks forward to it. BTW, i never did figure out if the Nasr you constantly refer to is the guy at George Washington University in DC. If so, he offered to address my Sufi group for a fee. That was all I needed to hear. NOBODY in the Sufi Movement is paid a dime for what they do. How about your group? Yes, Harvard is a pretty good school and my son took his masters there, with honors. It is one thing to teach a course (he did too) and quite another to fly in the face of the evidence in the Library of Congress. This could be pretty interesting to us all, Brother Simon, if you take up the challenge. At 11:52 PM 9/29/96 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings one and all and Mr.McCaig. > >This is my last post on the subject. > >Ms.Schimmel does not need me to defend her. She is a respected scholar >in the field and her body of work stands on its own merit for anyone to >examine and verify. > >Her works in the field accepted across the board are: > >- Mystical Dimensions of Islam, University of North Carolina Press, >Chapel Hill 1975 > >- The Symbolic Language of Maulana Jalal ad-Din Rumi, Studies in Islam >I, New Delhi 1964 > >- The Triumphal Sun: A Study of the Works of Jalaloddin Rumi, East-West >Publications/Persian Studies Series -1980 > >I just listed these because they deal with the specific topic. She >taught the subject at Harvard. Ms. Schimmel has written countless other >books and learned articles on the subject. > > >Could Mr.McCaig gives us accesible and available references to >Dr.Ibrahim Pourhadi's work on this matter. > >For Mr.McCaig to publicly make the following statement: > >>"He comments that Ms Schimmel has not done her homework thoroughly and >> this is not the first time he has come up against her misinformation." > >I can only take Mr.McCaig word that Dr. Pourhadi said this. But it >nevertheless shows the same sloppines and irresponsibility Mr.McCaig >exhibited a few months back in regards to Dr.Nasr. > >Also you quote me me as having written the text below. > >> Simon wrote: >> >> This poem, which shows the mystic beyond time and space, beyond the >> created borders between races and religions, has often been >> repeated in the West; however it is not found in the critical edition > > of the 'Kolliyat-e Shams', and resembles in its whole tenor rather the >> effusions of slightly later poets in the Persian and Turkish speaking >> areas, who would repeat similar ideas time and again. (end of quote) >> > >This was made quite clear that it was quote from Ms.Schimmel's >'Triumphal Sun' > >For me Mr.McCaig, you have absolutely no credibility on this or any >other level and you might be called to make another public apology for >putting forth false information in addition to insulting Ms.Schimmel. > >Simon Bryquer >====================================================================== > >James McCaig wrote: >> >> Dear Jinavamsa and friends, >> >> I was able to reach Dr. Pourhadi at home over the weekend. He tells me >> >> the following: >> >> The quotation is not his (he had given it to me) but that of Reynold >> Nicholson, whom he maintains has done the finest Rumi translations >> into >> English. The quotation is indeed from Kolliyat-e Shams. Further there >> are numerous other examples of this work in the Library of Congress >> with >> essentially the same translation (he thought off the top of his head >> about 70). These are not limited to English translations but include >> Arabic and Turkish works (he is accomplished in these languages as >> well). >> He also has, I think I remember from a previous conversation, original >> >> and ancient copies of texts in the Persian with that same passage. >> >> He comments that Ms Schimmel has not done her homework thoroughly and >> this is not the first time he has come up against her misinformation. >> While she does speak some Farsi, she cannot compare with any of the >> recognized serious scholars of Rumi, nor can she be considered a >> serious >> scholar of the Persian language. >> >> Dr. Pourhadi, who is a regular attendee at our Sufi meetings here, has >> >> generously offered the resources of the library to anyone who will >> take a >> serious interest in pursuing this matter. He explained it will not >> take >> much of his time as there have been many over the years who disputed >> the >> authenticity of the passage and he has the research ready and >> available. >> >> He did not recall the exact page from memory in the Nicholson >> translation, but invites anyone in our Tariqas group to contact him at >> >> the library: >> >> Dr. Ibraham V. Pourhadi >> Area Specialist >> Library of Congress >> John Adams Building #128 >> 3rd & Pennsylvania Ave., SE >> Washington, DC 20540 >> >> Business (202)707-5675 >> Fax (202)707-1724 >> >> Dr. Pourhadi has also made a lifelong study of the history of Sufism >> and >> will be happy to discuss anybody's theories about when it began and >> where. He can trace it thousands of years with documents at hand in >> the >> library, where his section has some 500,000 volumes of ancient text. >> He >> prefers to answer written requests, rather than by phone. >> >> Warm regards to all, >> >> At 02:01 PM 9/29/96 -0400, you wrote: >> >hello Simon, Maharaj James and all, >> >Would you have the exact ref. (as in title of text, pp., etc.) of the >> >> >Pourhadi translation? Also, is the ghazal/verse in question cited >> there >> as >> >coming from the work Kolliyat-e Shams, or from elsewhere? Does >> Schimmel >> >herself know of his work? >> >Maybe they could clarify some of this in they collaborated (=worked >> >together). >> >in peace, >> >Jinavamsa >> > >> > >> >In a message dated 96-09-27 21:17:25 EDT, you write: >> > >> ><< >> > The translation which I have submitted is by Dr. Ibrahim Pourhadi of >> >> the >> > Library of Congress, who will defend his translation if anybody >> wants >> to >> > seriously contest it. His native tounge is Farsi and he has his >> doctorate >> > from Princeton in Sanskrit, while being fluent in seven other >> languages. He >> > has made a life-long study of Rumi. Any takers? >> > >> >> Simon wrote: >> > > >> > >This poem, which shows the mystic beyond time and space, beyond the >> >> > >created borders between races and religions, has often been >> repeated >> in >> > >the West; however it is not found in the critical edition of the >> > >'Kolliyat-e Shams', and resembles in its whole tenor rather the >> > >effusions of slightly later poets in the Persian and Turkish >> speaking >> >> > >areas, who would repeat similar ideas time and again. >> > >(end of quote) >> > > >> > >That's all for now. >> > > >> > >Salaams to one and all >> > > >> > >Simon >> >> Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington >> Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center >> Bookstore >> United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi >> >> jmccaig@worldweb.net > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #171 *****************************