From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Oct 7 22:07:57 1996
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:57:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com
Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #157
tariqas-digest Tuesday, 24 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 157
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@pacific.net.sg>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:19:17 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: Re: Shamanism & Islam
Salam.The pir in the New Delhi graveyard may be called a Muwahid a Unitarian
but I think that he was not a Sufi .Many fall by the side during the journey
because they did not pursue the goal and were distracted by side
attractions.Jinns , occult power , materialising and dematerialising things
these are the symptoms of not realising the goal.That is why in the
Naqshbandi way all wings which enable one to have power are severely clipped
so that one's Only for Allah motive is not polluted.In the other tariqas the
danger is there : falling for side attractions.That is why the last veil to
be removed is the Hijab Insaniya or the Veil of Humanity.If that veil is the
first to be removed , there will be severe temptations to use powers
available and one's ego will be inflated.
At 20:39 9/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Carol asked:
>> If you do not mind me asking, Michael, do you look at the "Shamanic
>> tradition" as being incompatible with Islam/Sufism?
>>
>Carol, hope you don't mind my giving a response.
>
>Well, there are certainly some shamanic elements practiced by some Sufis. A
few years back i met an old Chishti pir in a graveyard in New Delhi who was
really more of a shaman-type than what one would call a realized mystic
(abiding in a mystica unitas). i was stuck waiting for the fighting to quiet
down in Kashmir so i could enter, and i didn't have much else to do except
sit around and breath polluted Delhi air, so i hung out with this guy for a
couple of weeks.
>
>For a couple hours each day, he would give me teachings on the hierarchical
worlds of the jinn and how to capture them, jinn as personal guides,
creating various talismanic figures with the divine Names for healing and
spells, exorcism, astral dreaming... stuff like that. (actually, he was
quite an accomplished dream yogi). A lot of this can be found in a book
popular in more occult Sufi circles in India called Jawahiru 'l-Khamsah by
Sheikh Abu 'l-Muwayyid (i think from around the 16th c). Granted, however,
it was considered to be worthy to practice any of this stuff only after
undertaking various chillas (40 day retreats) of intense purification, which
this pir did, and he still never lost sight of the oneness and authority of
Allah.
>
>i never felt compelled to actually practice anything he taught me,
fascinating as it was, (if i caught a jinn i wouldn't know what to do with
it, and i don't own any cages), and when i left for Kashmir i had a feeling
that he was stuck in a kind of astral world which shaped his thinking
dualistically. Then again, maybe he served some other purpose. At night,
he would always sleep in his yogic-dream states near the entrance to
Nizamuddin Aulia's dargah, and would tell me that during that time he would
be battling the negative jinn and demons.
>
>So maybe there is a place of capatability between shamanism and Sufism, but
again is it really worth the efforts, is it necessary? Is it not better to
endeavor to embrace the formless first, and then maybe hang the Christmas
tree tinzle. As for spells in the form of incantations to produce
particular effects, Muhammad pwbh is reported to have said in the Mishkat
21.100.1, "There is nothing wrong in using spells (i assume the word here is
da'wa or "a call", "an invocation") so long as you do not associate anything
with God."
>
>Blessings,
>
>Nur
>
------------------------------
From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@pacific.net.sg>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:31:17 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: Re: Observing Self; was Re: Desire
Salam.Rather than use the method called "Self Witness" or "Observation"
which can be very difficult for some people , how about using "Building a
Fence Around the Mind " approach.It works like this.And I have to use a story.
A neighbour who is troublesome comes to the house.You are polite to her and
you offer her cakes and drinks.And switch on the TV.She relaxes and starts
her troublesome gossip.Everytime she comes she is offered such pleasant
responses.She will always come.
But if she comes and you answer her questions tersely and just give her a
drink and almost immediately .She will get the message and leave.Because she
is not entertained.
The same with bad thoughts.Dont entertain it.Dont fight it.But think of
other things.Go read a book.Think of other things.But dont entertain the bad
thought.If you do that it will always come back.
So build a fence around the mind.This is the easier and less painful way
than the Self Witness and Observation methods.
At 12:39 9/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Rashid wrote:
>>
>> Michael J. Moore wrote:
>>
>> > To begin to learn to control thoughts involves a technique called
observation.
>> > I am using 'observation' as a technical term. Learn to first Observe
>> > your thoughts. Create in your head, two selves, the 'observing self'
and the
>> > your thinking self. But rather than describe in detail this technique,
>> > I will tell you it is from the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.
>>
>> Dear Michael
>>
>> AA
>>
>> That is a very fascinating concept. I would be grateful if you can
>> provide some
>> more info on this subject. Where can I get literature on the teachings
>> of
>> Gurdjieff and Ouspensky?
>>
>> Is it possible for you to guide me to adopt this technique?
>>
>> Wassalam
>>
>> Rashid
>
>Ha! Me guiding somebody? Now that would be a sight! Are you familiar
>with
>'The Fool' of the tarot?
>Naw, I'll leave the guiding to the pros.
>
>'The 4th Way' by P.D. Ouspensky. The instructions are clear and the
>results are confirmable.
>Cheers,
>--
>-Michael-
>
------------------------------
From: Fred Rice <darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:34:10 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re. Ebionites & Nazarenes
Assalamu alaikum,
I wrote....
On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Fred Rice wrote:
> I just read that apparently, according to Robert Eisenman (a Dead Sea
> Scrolls scholar), the group who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls referred
> to themselves by various names, including "Ebionim" and "Nazarenes".
>
> Robert Eisenman then apparently suggests that the community at Qumran may
> have been a group of early Jewish-Christians, since many of these names --
> like Ebionim and Nazarenes -- were names also used by the early
> Jewish-Christians. Interesting coincidence?
Actually, because of my curiosity, I went out and borrowed a book of
his tonight... his hypothesis does seem speculative, since none of the
people of early Christianity (eg. Jesus (pbwh), the disciples, James,
or Paul) are mentioned at all by name... rather, there is just speculation
as to the meaning of certain titles, and applying them to these persons....
So Allah knows best.
Wassalam,
Fariduddien
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:47:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Limits:-)
Hello, Beloved of God!
Imaan Joshi wrote:
[...]
> Shaykh Ibn' Ata'Illah says in his Hikam:
> Among the signs of success at the end is the turning to Allah[swt]
> at the beginning."
>
> I am feeling very very mellow:-) alHamdulillah:-)
Allah lives at the core of your heart. When you feel mellow it is Self
breaking through and communicating with the senses, self. Allah longs to
know self through Self. Follow your heart, those little nudges, those
little whispers, and bliss soon follows you! <smile>
The End and the Beginning, no difference...
O Lord, send Thy peace the we may endure all, tolerate all in the
thoguth of Thy grace and mercy. alHamdulillah,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:08:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Re. Ebionites & Nazarenes
Hello, Fariduddien!
>From about 1960 until just a few years ago I have tried to make heads or
tails out of the Dead Sea Scrolls from these books and many more of less
note:
"The Dead Sea Scrolls: A Reappraisal," 2nd edition,
Harmondsworth, 1975, "The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian
Myth," Newton Abbot, 1979--John R. Allegro
"Maccabees, Zadokites, Christians and Qumran," Leiden, 1983,
"Janes the Just in the Habakkuk Pesherm" Leiden, 1986--R.H.
Eisenman
"The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered"--Robert Eisenman & Michael
Wise, Penguin Books, NY, 1993
"The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception"--Michael Baigent and Richard
Leigh, Touchstone (Simon & Schuster), NY, 1993.
"The Dead Sea Scrolls in English"--G. Vermes, Penguin Books,
NY, 1991
The best anyone can say now and likely forever is "We have opinions, and
more opinions, but no proofs or conclusions, about anything."
Other interesting scholarly books of interest might be:
Mandeans - "Baptists of Jordon" - John, the Baptist, was likely
one of them (gnostic sect); 15,000 remain in southern Iraq.
(Sabeans, after Sobiai who was successor of Eleksai
(Elkesaites, baptism of Essenes), the founder.) From Kurt
Rudolph, "Gnosis: The Nature and History of Gnosticism," Harper
& Row, NY, 1983.
"The Gnostic Gospels"--Prof. Elaine H. Pagels (1943- ), Random
House, NY, 1979. "Adam, Eve, and The Serpent," Random House, 1988
Intellect is a tough task master. Intuition is so soft and sweet, close
to the core of the heart! Instinct keeps us in place, treading water, in
the middle of the river.
Towards The One: love, harmony, and beauty, let the message spread far
and wide,
tanzen
> On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Fred Rice wrote:
>
> > I just read that apparently, according to Robert Eisenman (a Dead Sea
> > Scrolls scholar), the group who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls referred
> > to themselves by various names, including "Ebionim" and "Nazarenes".
> >
> > Robert Eisenman then apparently suggests that the community at Qumran may
> > have been a group of early Jewish-Christians, since many of these names --
> > like Ebionim and Nazarenes -- were names also used by the early
> > Jewish-Christians. Interesting coincidence?
>
> Actually, because of my curiosity, I went out and borrowed a book of
> his tonight... his hypothesis does seem speculative, since none of the
> people of early Christianity (eg. Jesus (pbwh), the disciples, James,
> or Paul) are mentioned at all by name... rather, there is just speculation
> as to the meaning of certain titles, and applying them to these persons....
>
> So Allah knows best.
>
> Wassalam,
>
> Fariduddien
------------------------------
From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@pacific.net.sg>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:34:59 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: Re: Re. Ebionites & Nazarenes
Salam.In one of these posts someone mentioned that he thought that the
Gospel of Barnabas was among those documents of the Dead Sea Scrolls.I dont
think so.But the Gospel of Barnabas was discovered when a Bishop or monk had
a dream about the location of the Gospel.It was found on the body of
St.Barnabas buried in his tomb in Cyprus.For this reason I am told Cyprus
was given its independence both as a nation and as an independent
church.Sure the Gospel of Barnabas as discovered by Laura and Lonsdale Ragg
in the early 20th century in the Imperial Library of Vienna is not accepted
as a Gospel by the Church.But if one reads it , there are some parts which
are truly beautiful, mystical and almost Sufistic.It can give some hints
about the existence in the early church of those Christians who still
followed the Mosaic Law and those who had accepted the Pauline heresy.One
part of course appears immediately to a Christian to be an interpolation but
one can never tell: "How can Isaac be the first born , for when Isaac was
born , Ishmael was already .......years old " To be fair some Muslim
scholars also dont accept the Gospel of Barnabas as authentic.
At 23:34 9/24/96 +1000, you wrote:
>
>Assalamu alaikum,
>
>I wrote....
>
>On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Fred Rice wrote:
>
>> I just read that apparently, according to Robert Eisenman (a Dead Sea
>> Scrolls scholar), the group who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls referred
>> to themselves by various names, including "Ebionim" and "Nazarenes".
>>
>> Robert Eisenman then apparently suggests that the community at Qumran may
>> have been a group of early Jewish-Christians, since many of these names --
>> like Ebionim and Nazarenes -- were names also used by the early
>> Jewish-Christians. Interesting coincidence?
>
>Actually, because of my curiosity, I went out and borrowed a book of
>his tonight... his hypothesis does seem speculative, since none of the
>people of early Christianity (eg. Jesus (pbwh), the disciples, James,
>or Paul) are mentioned at all by name... rather, there is just speculation
>as to the meaning of certain titles, and applying them to these persons....
>
>So Allah knows best.
>
>Wassalam,
>
>Fariduddien
>
>
------------------------------
From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@pacific.net.sg>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:53:02 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: Let's words spring out of our hearts
Salam Michael. I am sorry if I had used words that should never have been
used at brethren.I have a lot to learn from you.
By the way , cant we all try to write some poetry.Here's one awful one:
"A motley bunch we are
We bring the market into the net
But we sell all kinds of love
Tis all we want to spread "
"Iman Joshi is our baby
Her freshness scents her words
I have not seen her in jilbab
Neither has she seen our shirts
But in our mind's eye she's there
Awaiting for her shaykh
But if Murshid does not show up
Her loving heart wont break "
In Singapore and Malaysia poems are exchanged instantaneously by Malays and
Straits born Chinese.There is a Malay poem for every occasion.Can anyone
return mine ?
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:42:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Where Kahuna fit in?
Hello, everybody!
maarof wrote:
>
> Thank tanzen for the info about Kahuna.
You are welcome! <smile>
> During my visit to French Guyana early this year, the one thing that fascinates
> me is the large variety of palms in the northern part the Amazon jungle. I've
> read somewhere that the Amazon forest is much younger compared to the tropical
> rain forest of south-east Asia, and this might be true because I find less
> variety and less dense ferns compared to what we have here.
The reality of land-mass movements over the earth for the last million
years is not very solid!
> But looking at
> the palms, and the forest, although it is almost like home, somehow spiritually
> I find it very different and strange. The feeling is almost as if they are
> different life forms. It makes me wonder whether that there's
> not only biological boundaries but also associated with it, spiritual boundaries
> on this planet.
I believe that what we believe, what we personally experience, is our
reality.
> Kahuna (keeper of the secret)? It might have something to do with it or might
> not.
The word Ka-huna is literal: huna is "secret" in Hawaiian; ka is "he" or
self, "that"; so, a person called kahuna is the person who has or keeps
the "secret". It is popular to simply call a person with "the powers" a
priest or holy person. In my sufi order (SIRS) there are three women who
have had extension training in the practices of the Kuna. Much insight
has been gained from them: all knowledge comes from within, from above,
from Great Mysterious, through High Self; humans have much difficulty
interpreting this knowledge, shouldn't even try.
Now just what is this "secret"? From my experience this secret is "WHAT
you as a human being are". And as best I can gather up into my
consciousness WHAT we are is PURE SPIRIT. Now knowing, believing this
one moves in a certain way towards Union with the Universe, Allah.
I have talked to many Hawaiians about their traditions before the
Christians came in about 1820. I get mixed reactions of love and fear.
Many have stated that there is so much peace in the Huna soul that they
blend into any environment quickly, and we can see that the Hawaiians
did just that.
Protestant ministers and Catholic priests were so distressed by the
power of healing of the Kahunas, and they themselves had not this power,
they could think that such could only come from the "devil", our
shaytan. (Always amazing how we can defend what we believe to our death;
it gives us something solid to base our lives upon?)
Presently there is a revolution going on in the Pacific islands to
return to the old ways of love and peace. Bravo! The fear on both sides
seems to be going away. Western religion hasn't the police-state power
it once had so we can practice what we please as long as that doesn't
harm others, or ourselves. Now this is spiritual liberty! <smile>
Peace and love,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: Imaan Joshi <sci30342@leonis.nus.sg>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:56:58 +0800
Subject: Re: Limits:-)
At 07:47 24/09/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello, Beloved of God!
>
as salaamu 'alaikum Br Tanzen:-)
>Allah lives at the core of your heart. When you feel mellow it is Self
>breaking through and communicating with the senses, self. Allah longs to
>know self through Self. Follow your heart, those little nudges, those
>little whispers, and bliss soon follows you! <smile>
and many many tears at times, when one feels a sense of loss so
profound...:-) ..that one fears one may lose one's senses. I went through
one such session today; so happy and mellow in the evening...all was right
with the world...then just abt an hour ago,...all was still right with the
world, or at least, all was as He willed it, but I was feeling so lost, so
...very lost, and full of despair that His mercy would ever reach me...and
perhaps it is by these that He brings us to our knees. I cannot say; but the
love he puts between us, all of us, be we friends, or lovers, or more, far
far more, surely, as mentioned once by...Br fariduddien in responce to my
post, I think, surely these are all signs that Insh'Allah, we are drawing
closer to Him, for as Rumi put it, He creates for us mates like
ourselves...if we are bad, we draw nothing but bad, and, if we are good,
Insh'Allah, we draw the good...and Allah[swt] knows best:-)
Thank you Br Tanzen:-) I have not heard from you in a long long
while:-) I wrote to you personally a long time ago, maybe two weeks? No
reply...perhaps you failed to get my mail? And there is no coincidence:-)
Imaan Shivani Joshi
sci30342@leonis.nus.sg
He who painted you all by Himself will not leave you alone in your mad
desire. [Jalaluddin Rumi]
------------------------------
From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:37:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Strange Story
Hello Imaan!
> sorry if I seem to be butting in:_)
impossible! Thank you for your insightful comments! :)
>>ahhh, but the BEAUTY of doing just that! The beauty of this list...
>>walking in one another's moccasins, if even for a brief moment!
>
> and the appreciation that would come from it; imagine, is
>some of the tyrants of the world had actually been able to place
themselves in
>the shoes of their victims...would they have gone ahead with the
terrible
>atrocities that they did:-)?
I think that would have been impossible. :)
> I agree with this; I think IMHO, at least part of it is social
>conditioning; I remember when I was grwoing up, my mom used to tell me
>to stay away from boys, cos they "only want one thing from you."
yes, i think it is social conditioning... with men and women!
Thanks for sharing the story of the proposal you received. Proposals at
those kinds of parties in /this/ neck of the woods are not usually
/marriage/ proposals! :)
>these...batons, for lack of a better word, where pple form two
>circles, and in time to music, move in opposite directions so that with
each set,
>they face a new partner...difficult to explain, but I was approached by
a
yes... i am somewhat familiar... we call it -all- 'folk dancing'! :)
>they are mentally undressing you...sadly enuff, I still encounter,
>hijaab and all, men like that, *muslim men, after jumu'at*, for
>example...what can I say? Is it my fault, or theirs? Nothing of me can
be seen except >my face and hands, and I still get looked at by these...
I don't see any of this as being anyone's 'fault' necessarily. We're all
human afterall! :)
> generally, I find this to be especially true with older men; I
>do not know if it is their experience, or that they are wiser, and
>therefore,safer:-)
I wouldn't try to make any generalizations along those lines! :)
>the heart seems to just know this better:-)IMHO.
yes, yes!! :)
thanks for your reply!
love & peace,
carol
------------------------------
From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:37:17 EDT
Subject: shamanism
Hello friendly ones! :)
Thank you all who posted on the subject of shamanism as it relates to
sufism. I believe it is true that whether or not there can be a
"shamanic sufi" depends on our definition of those terms (including, to
some extent, our experience and beliefs).
To give a better idea of where i am coming from... the following quote
might help:
>A Chippewa medicine man smiled compassionately when he was asked where
Native >Americans get their power over illnesses, weather and other
natural phenomena, a >power that has so often been demonstrated and
documented among nature-based >societies. The explanation he gave could
as well have come from Meister Eckhart in >Medieval Europe or Lao Tsu in
China six centuries before our modern era. He >explained that this power
is not magic--"Magic is not magic if you understand it"-- but >a simple
use of forces that are part of Nature and present for all of us to use at
all >times if only we become aware of who and what we Are. To underline
this point, >Jesus once reminded the western world that if someone with
awareness were to tell >a mountain to be moved, it would do so.
> -- George Fowler
The perspective presented above has been related to me over and over
again by Medicine People of many different Tribes.
("Medicine Woman" or "Medicine Man" is the term i am more familiar
with... being used more often by the Indians (indigenous Peoples of North
America) i know. Although, i believe the term "shaman" is considered
pretty much synonyomus?)
As /i/ define the terms. :) ... Medicine (wo)man is one who has learned
to live in harmony with Nature. One who has, to use Fowler's words,
become aware of who and what we Are.
Defining a "sufi" is much more difficult... and i won't attempt it! :)
... however! :) To me, the 'two' can definately be compatible. A Sufi
seeks to know how she relates to Nature, as part of Nature... ? Hazrat
Inayat Khan has said, "Nature is a bridge to cross to Thy dwelling-place"
... and "there is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life
itself".
I'd love to hear more comments on this subject! :)
thanks.
in peace,
carol
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:31:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Limits
Hello, Beloved of God!
Imaan Joshi wrote:
[...]
> Which brings me to my question: how does one know that one has found
> one's murshid?
By the nudges you get coming from your heart, from its core; some call
this core intuition, but really, it is the seat of Allah in our bodies.
> Or is it that the murshid finds the mureed?
Works both ways, you each get a nudge, from within, from above, from
collective Spirit of Guidance, behind which stands Allah! <smile>
> Does anyone know
> of any female shaykhs?
Mine is female, a full Murshida in both Sufi Movement International
(SMI) and Sufi Islamia Ruhaniat Society (SIRS).
> I worry about this very much, in terms of the adab
> etc...
Worry not, good manners are never in poor taste: Turn your search over
to Allah; after all IT is The One that is seeking you, or didn't you
know? <grin?
> and I worry that I may never find my murshid...
Believe that you are more than your body, more than your mind, even more
than your spirit, but believe that you are placed here to help others,
to be kind to others, to develop tact and tolerance for all things, all
peoples. Believe that Allah loves you for you are The Beloved!
> I know of a br, an
> aspirant who for the past 10 years, has been searching and has met many
> shaykhs, but not *his* murshid. Yet other brs and srs have found their
> murshid almost from the beginning; yet others claim that a murshid is not
> necessary; I am confused:_)
We are each unique in our make-up, in our past, in our present, in our
minds, in our spirits. Such is Allah's Will: it's in al-Qur'an. Come,
let us embrace (hug) as father and daughter, let the tears flow, let the
love show! We mutually each need the other, or didn't you know? <grin>
> Then we come to the question of the relationship between the mureed
> and murshid. How secret is secret?
There really are few secrets... and these are for your own good and the
good of humanity.
> How is this secrecy likely to affect the
> relationship of the mureed/murshid with his/her spouse?
Not at all, no affect.
> I am someone who
> hates to keep secrets from those dear to her, and likewise, I would hope
> that anyone dear to me would not keep secrets from either...so then what
> happens when one or both parties in a relationship have secrets from one
> another? Are there any couples on tariqas who have different murshids? Any
> problems?
A little of my history... being a student of Huna for many years, in
parallel with that of Gurdjeff, Ouspensky and Nicoll, it came to me that
I "needed" an honest-to-God teacher or guide. I went to Sufi Camp and
met dozens of guides, teachers, and priests (Zen). I picked one but he
would have nothing to do with me. He was a very pious man with wife; I
loved him on sight. He sent me indirectly to another beautiful man
teacher, a sheihk, with many powers and phenomenon. But he too sent me
away, but to a woman this time, a woman with vast experiences of many
traditions.
I phone called this woman and we met... after an hour of face-to-face
talking I asked to be initiatied. She said she would "sleep" on it. She
called in a few days and said she would take me as a student and
initiate me in two weeks. This she did and gave me the name of "tanzen".
I BE blessed. I had met my mate, the one who was to transmit the
esoteric teaching to me. Praise be to Allah!
My wife of 41 years, Betty, is a natural sufi, born that way. She has no
problems with me as a sufi with a teacher I dearly love, as she knows I
love just about everything that moves and even that which doesn't move.
So, I be happy, but still long for ever closer union with My Lord, that
which is above my High Self, my intuition, my heart.
> I have a lot of questions, and a lot of doubts...worries:-) Anyone
> with any advice? Jazak Allahu Khair:-)bSorry for being such a bother:-)
Dear one, you could never be a bother, to me. You are The Beloved in all
the shades of infinity, all of ITS qualities.
Doubts? Put them behind thee: Say, "shaytan, be gone, I, Imaan Joshi of
Shiva, face only the light... I do not truck with darkness! Be gone! I
follow the core of my heart, the seat of Allah."
Love, harmony, and beauty, comes down the lines, into our paths,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:35:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Let's words spring out of our hearts
>In Singapore and Malaysia poems are exchanged instantaneously by Malays
and
>Straits born Chinese.There is a Malay poem for every occasion.Can anyone
>return mine ?
ahhh, Zainuddin!! :) Thank you for sharing your poem! It is
beautiful... straight from the heart!
together we are waking!
can you feel the wind caress your soul?
can you hear the ancient rhythm,
meting out our breath?
what do you see...
there in the distance?
'tis dawn!
echoes the eagle's cry
awaken to the Beauty...
open your eyes to love
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Moore" <mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:57:58 -0700
Subject: Re: shamanism
Carol Woodsong wrote:
> ("Medicine Woman" or "Medicine Man" is the term i am more familiar
> with... being used more often by the Indians (indigenous Peoples of North
> America) i know. Although, i believe the term "shaman" is considered
> pretty much synonyomus?)
My definition: The Medicine Man/Woman is responsible for healing members
of the tribe. No experience with 'other worlds' is required to be
a Medicine Man. The Medicine man may be manipulating spirits but
these spirits do not require traveling( altered states ) to be
delt with.
The Shaman travels (usually by riding the drum) to
other worlds where he 'sees' things and brings back that information
to help the tribe. Sometimes both of these 'hats' are worn by the
same person. The Shamans information may be for the benifit of healing
an individual but it might also be any other type of information.
>
> As /i/ define the terms. :) ... Medicine (wo)man is one who has learned
> to live in harmony with Nature. One who has, to use Fowler's words,
> become aware of who and what we Are.
I think that this definition is too broad to be useful. It has too much
overlap with other terms and it does not take advantage of the common
understanding of what 'medicine' is. IMHO
>
> Defining a "sufi" is much more difficult... and i won't attempt it! :)
> ... however! :) To me, the 'two' can definately be compatible. A Sufi
> seeks to know how she relates to Nature, as part of Nature... ? Hazrat
> Inayat Khan has said, "Nature is a bridge to cross to Thy dwelling-place"
> ... and "there is no greater scripture than nature, for nature is life
> itself".
Generally, the shaman seeks personal empowerment. The Sufi surrenders
all power to allah and if allah empowers him, well, then, allah know
best.
This is my understanding; if it is correct, then you can see where
I would say that sufism and shamanism are not compatible. Maybe both
are 'valid' (that is a different question) but not compatible.
peace
- -br Mikayl-
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End of tariqas-digest V1 #157
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