From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Sep 23 21:08:04 1996
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 20:45:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com
Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #146
tariqas-digest Wednesday, 18 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 146
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Abdin Chande <achande@osprey.smcm.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:44:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Desire -Reply
Prohibition of sex in Islam
Sex with one's wife, apart from that mentioned by bro Zainuddin, is
also
prohibited during the eve of the 2 days of Eid (AidilAdha and
AidilFitr).
Apart from full moon, sex is prohibited in the eve of 1st month and
end of
month in the Hijr calendar. The reasons for this is because these
are the
times Satan chooses to have sex.
Regards,
\
Noordin
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Salaams! I am curious
to know the source of this information. I take it you obtained this
from some hadith or fiqh book? It would be helpful to provide some
references and Muslim scholars comments on the status of the above.
A.C.
------------------------------
From: pathway@dnet.net (John Womack)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:49:12 -0500
Subject: North American Indian infulences
The growth of the soul is often interpreted by the restless mind of
mankind in the light of those things that the mind thinks it understands;
often therefore, by the level of its involvement in the material world.
Those who have seen the world revealed as a desert, often see the
soul as being basically barren but graced with precious hidden places of
eternal water and blessed shade, and the spirit as a relentless burning,
blazing, unbearable glory that is often similiar to pain.
Those who saw the world revealed in the early North American
forests and plains (before the Europeans arrived), reported that the soul
was bountiful, full of endless and varied blessings, and the spirit was a
giving force, full of love and endless engergy, and that the Great Spirit
was found in many forms and in every place.
Those who saw the world revealed in Europe and early United States
settlements often saw the world as a wild and unruly place, full of
dangerous and harmful things, a carelessly planted child of the devil,
willful and demonic, a spirit that was dependent upon man's discipline and
obedience; dependent upon the scourging and forceful control of those many
evil things and requiring a sacrificial dedication to impose order.
Jerry Coleman, a leading participant in the return of the
Cherokees to seek their spiritual heritage, who lives in the Snowbird
Mountains, says that he beleives that as many as 26,000,000 Americans may
carry some "Indian blood" in their ancestral heritage. That would be
aproximately 1/10 of all Americans. Add to that the heritage of
African-Americans, and Hispanic-Americans, many of whom share that familial
connection with the mother planet, and it can be wondered if a great force
is slowly rising in our country, one that might someday lead all its people
back across the trail of tears into a new (old) spiritual understanding
with the Great Spirit who loved the world so much that the spirit blessed
that wonderful place with us. John.
------------------------------
From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 06:42:58 -0700
Subject: Re: prayer
Greetings Nur:
Judaism is currently reclaiming many of the rites and practices that have
been done in the past. Case in point, many of the prayers included
verbal reference to bowing and prostrations, but because other
traditions- Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.
had taken on these practices, Jewish custom was to refrain from doing
full prostrations called hakaphot in Hebrew.
Now there is an inclusion of the prostrations for some orthodox,
conservative, eclectic, ecstatic denominations during the high holy days and
the days of Succot/Shmini Atzeret - dwelling in temporary housings with
thatched roofs etc. and it appears that this practice may return as a
regular part of Jewish prayers.
Jewish prayers are set for three times a day in congruence to Abraham,
Isaac and Jacob, although there are additional special prayers set aside for
midnight and for early AM for those so spiritually inclined.
B'salam/Shalom
Raqib
> >Brother
Maroof, >
>The Christian monks (after the mid 4th century) in the region of Amid in =
>middle Syria (the same region Mohammed PBUH was suppose to have traveled =
>with his uncle) are recorded as performing prayers five times a day at =
>the same hours as the Islamic salat. But they faced east in typical =
>Syrian Christian fashion. (according to a manuscript by John of Ephesus =
>in Arthur Voobus, History of Asceticism in the Syrian Orient II, Corpus =
>Scriptorum Christianorum Orientalum, vol. 197, Louvain, 1960). According =
>to Voobus, this is the only region where he knows of prayers being =
>performed 5 times a day instead of 3 as elsewhere in Syria, Palestine, =
>and Egypt. The monks putting their knees on the ground in prayer was =
>called *burke*or *selawata* in Syriac, the the prostration that followed =
>was called *metuniia*. According to the Syrian father Philoxenos of =
>Mabbug (early 6th century), the prostrations were to be performed 40 =
>times.
>
>Blessings,
>
>Nur
>
>
>
>
>
>
- --
<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>
------------------------------
From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:59:10 EDT
Subject: Re: North American Indian infulences
Hello friends, :)
John wrote:
[...]
>, many of whom share that familial
>connection with the mother planet, and it can be wondered if a great
force
>is slowly rising in our country, one that might someday lead all its
people
>back across the trail of tears into a new (old) spiritual understanding
>with the Great Spirit who loved the world so much that the spirit
blessed
>that wonderful place with us. John.
The return of the Buffalo...
The Ghost Dance...
This Spirit never died. It lives on.... Eternal.
thanks for your beautiful words, John.
I don't know what 'might be' ... but i /feel/ deep within me, NOW...
this... return.
mitaquye oyasin.
(all my relations...)
much love,
yondanoota
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Moore" <mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:18:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
Asim Jalis wrote:
> --snip--
> I think it is
> appropriate to mention that a translator is Jewish. I mean if I have a copy
> of the Quran that has been translated by an atheist, then that is something
> I would like to know. --snip--
> Asim
Why?
- --
Michael J. Moore
------------------------------
From: Craig Johannsen <johan@Ultranet.ca>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 10:49:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Desire -Reply
There must be some sybolic significance to the phrase
"times Satan chooses to have sex".
Surely this has no literal meaning -- do angels have sex?
Yes, I saw the film Rosemary's Baby, but that was just fiction,
wasn't it?
Salaams,
Craig
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Moore" <mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:39:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Desire -Reply
Craig Johannsen wrote:
>
> There must be some sybolic significance to the phrase
> "times Satan chooses to have sex".
>
> Surely this has no literal meaning -- do angels have sex?
>
> Yes, I saw the film Rosemary's Baby, but that was just fiction,
> wasn't it?
>
> Salaams,
> Craig
I can testify that they do as I am married to one.
- --
Michael J. Moore
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:33:39 -0700
Subject: Re: The Problem of Suffering
Hello, Abdin Chande!
Seeing that no one has taken the bait, I'll try my hand at one answer to
"The Problem of Suffering". The questions you ask have ready answers for
those truly seeking, seeking long enough. Let's only tackle your item c)
below, as it seems the one that might bear the most fruit.
> c) the working out of nature which is morally blind and does not
> distinguish between good and bad when dishing out calamities (this
> is, for instance, the view advanced in rabbi Kushner's book "When bad
> Things happen to good people")...
The "laws of nature" are morally blind. These laws establish the limits
of materiality and movement. Life is simply matter moving in
relationship to other matter. Let's accept these as our theory and the
basis for further discussion. Okay?
Now these laws permit life, and life has mamy, many levels. These levels
determine what might be called degrees of consciousness of matter that
make up materiality.
At the level of humanity on earth we see that we have the power of
choose in what we do. Some point can be made that up to half of what we
do now is determined by what we did in the past. That is our choices
presently are colored by our experiences.
What gives us the power to make choices, i.e., appear to have what is
popularly called "free will"? Each level of materiality, i.e., the
created world, affects each other level. Nothing can be separated.
Substance, matter has density of varying magnitudes. At the higher
levels of consciousness this density is very low; at level of earth,
middle to high; and at still lower levels, very dense, or even
stillness. (Many images should come to mind as you envision to what
these words point.)
At levels of other than humanity creation is compelled to follow laws of
nature. Some call these Laws of God, others Ray of Creation. These laws,
thank Allah, have really never been given names.
So, our choices have put us into the condition we find ourselves. Our
thoughts, our words, and our deeds have produced here on earth something
quite different than would have been produced if every element of
manifestation followed exactly "The Laws". The environ we humans have
created is of our own doings. We each are responsible for our part. Our
part effects other humans, as well as animals, plants, and minerals,
here and within our solar systems.
Down to the short strokes (I trust)... each of us started life when
"creator", coming from a will unknown, established the foundations of
the create. (Of the non-create I have no knowledge, no experience.) So
our spirits are individualized aspects of the creator's will, spirit,
and have always existed as Absolute, as infinity. (We accept there is
one infinity and that can be called God, Allah, Great Mysterious, is all
and contains all.) What we have each thought and done over all time is
reflected in what happens today, as a collective. Our suffering is
determined by our past "wrong" choices and the reaction is in our
"bones", part of the Law of Causality, Law of Three). What we each do
has never been done isolated from our environment.
When we each follow The Law, i.e, align our wills (individualized
spirits, aspects of infinity) with that of the fate determined by Law,
we will have fulfilled our destiny. We will have "right" thoughts, right
words, and right deeds, and there will be no sickness, no pain, just
bliss, Jesus' heaven on earth.
As an after thought, consider the word "suffer". An ancient meaning of
it is "to allow". We permit our suffering, in the collective as well as
a person, because of our deeds, caused by our words and our thoughts.
Right thoughts and we are in heaven; now, not in some afterlife.
What we can understand is that we each are part of the whole and
determine the quality of that whole. So if everyone of us did no hurt to
our fellows heaven would be established now here on earth.
Enough... let others pick of the pieces and the task.
I hope what is said here has been useful, this I pray, according to Will
of Absolute.
Peace and love,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: Jinavamsa@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:29:14 -0400
Subject: Re: sex in full moon
In a message dated 96-09-18 00:06:47 EDT, you write:
>Sex is not only prohibited during full moon. It is also prohibited during
>the 1st , middle and last day (full moon) in the Muslim Hijr calendar.
>The reason for this is because these are the times when Satan have their
>sex. It is also haram to have sex on the eves of Eidil Adha and Eidil Fitr.
>Regards,
>Noordin
hello Noordin and all,
speaking/writing here in what is either the daughter of all, granddaughter of
all, richest and most wondrous of all, or most filthy bastard child of all
languages, English (honor to this and other languages), let me say this:
An interesting concept, this idea of Satan and sex.
I do not believe that I was ever personally involved in satanic sex (at least
this lifetime, at least insofar as I can remember), but then again, I am not
exactly sure what that would even amount to (British-like understatement).
What I am esp. wondering here is what such a presumably evil form of sex (in
some sense or other of the term "evil") has to do with anyone else? I mean in
a way that suggests that we shouldn't do what otherwise would be morally
neutral or beneficial to do.
And as someone pointed out, there is still the question of how we came to
"learn" that this is a practice of Satan. How does one learn of such? I love
abstraction and abstract or theoretical thinking, but this one is a bit
difficult to connect with *anything* in experience for me.
please teach well here.
in peace,
Jinavamsa
------------------------------
From: Steve H Rose <habib@world.std.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:07:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The Problem of Suffering
Assalamu alaikum.
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Abdin Chande wrote:
> Salaams to all!
>
> I wonder if anyone would be willing to share their insights on the
> problem of suffering in the world from any religious or philosophical
> standpoint/tradition, including Islam/sufism, Judaism, Christianity,
> Hinduism, Budhism etc. Here are some of the questions that may guide
> your response: is suffering a) a consequence of sins;
> b) a test from God to strengthen faith (e.g. the story of Job); c)
> the working out of nature which is morally blind and does not
> distinguish between good and bad when dishing out calamities (this
> is, for instance, the view advanced in rabbi Kushner's book "When bad
> Things happen to good people"); d) the product of capitalism which
> leads to the problem of alienation (Karl Marx)--and other secular
> viewpoints informed by Freudianism, existentialism, utilitarianism
> etc What about ethnic suffering--North & South American Indians,
> Aborigines in Australia, Blacks in the U.S. etc--what is the meaning
> of their suffering? Critics of religion argue that if God is
> Good/merciful/in control etc why is evil/ atrocities allowed to take
> place? Liberation theologians have wrestled with these thorny
> questions (the conservativism of the Catholic church/establishment
> notwithstanding). Why are some children born deformed, or people
> (some rather than others) struck down by cancer, liver disease,
> depression etc? Why is the restoration of justice promised in the
> afterlife and not in this life? These are some of the questions as
> well as objections that are usually raised when the problem of
> suffering is discussed.
I would like to suggest two additional possibilities:
e) Suffering is only suffering when we are attached to it (Buddhism)
f) Suffering, pain etc. are helpful in pointing out things that are wrong,
so that we can do something about it (like LEARNING). As far as I can
tell, this is the basic function of "pain," from one-celled organisms
(which may avoid pressure, intense heat etc., so that they can continue to
be around and reproduce) to humanity (which, if we don't learn necessary
lessons from holocausts, disasters, poverty, inequality, disease, war,
injustice, slavery, starvation, etc. etc. etc., will either keep getting
these same unpleasant lessons till we DO learn, or kill ourselves before
we "graduate").
Yours,
Habib
------------------------------
From: Steve H Rose <habib@world.std.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:07:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The Most Beautiful Names - (10) Al-Jabbaar (fwd)
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:25:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: The Most Beautiful Names - (10) Al-Jabbaar
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Assalaamu Alaikum
The following is from "The Most Beautiful Names" compiled by Sheik Tosun
Bayrak, published by Threshold Books - Amana Books.
________________________________________________________________________
Bismillah ir-Rahmaan ir-Raheem
In the name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful
________________________________________________________________________
_
Al-Jabbar
He is the Repairer of the broken, the Completer of the lacking, the one
who can enforce His will without any opposition.
_ _
Hz.'Ali (May Allah be pleased with him) used to pray, Ya Jabbira kulli
_ _ _ _
kasirin wa ya musahilla kulli 'asirin -- "O Jabbar, the one who puts
together all that is broken and the one who brings ease to every
difficulty."
At the same time He is the one who is able to enforce His will at all
times and places without any opposition. This forcefulness makes
submission a necessity. His forcefulness is within the destiny of all
His creation. The sun cannot say, "I will not rise again." The wind
cannot say, "I will not blow again." Yet man is given the choice.
_
One finds al-Jabbar by knowing that the only place to go to repair one's
broken hopes, to find peace in the confusion which one finds oneself, is
to Allah.
________________________________________________________________________
Enjoy! And Allah keep you safe from set backs!
Salaam,
bryan
- --
Birdsong brings relief
to my longing.
I am just as ecstatic as they are,
but with nothing to say!
Please, universal soul, practice
some song, or something, through me!
- Rumi via Coleman Barks
------------------------------
From: Steve H Rose <habib@world.std.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:13:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: suffering (fwd)
To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
From: Hamid Missoumi <missoumi@bcf.usc.edu>
Subject: Suffering
There is a story of children playing in the street and finding a bag of
sweets.
Quite unusually, the child who found the bag - and was holding to it -
agreed to share the find.
In the circle they formed, he started: you get 2, you nothing, you 5, etc...
Obviously, this was not a fair split.
The children argued for a while, and finally decided to refer the matter to
the first ADULT who would come be, for HE surely would be more fair!
Came Nasruddin...
The children explained their dilemna, and Nasruddin agreed and put this
condition:
Would you agree to my decision, i.e. that I split things my way, OR would
you rather have me do it GOD's way ?
The children did not think too long - knowing Nasruddin's odd ways - and all
agreed to GOD's WAY.
So Nasruddin went in the circle they formed: you get 2, you nothing, you 5,
etc...
That was too much for the children who got really mad at Nasruddin...
He explained however: You asked for this - God's way; look around you - that
is how thing are for everything in this world: HAD YOU ASKED ME TO DO IT MY
WAY, I WOULD HAVE SURELY GIVEN EACH 3 EXACTLY!!!
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, etc... are all OUR way, wishful thinking, a
dream.
But we will continue to ask WHY? Why Not ?
------------------------------
From: Fred Rice <darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:13:05 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Simon Bryquer wrote:
> I am pointing this out to you, because I feel you not quite aware that
> you even have these prejudices, seeing yourself as an objective student
> of the Muslim faith -- but take my word, you have them, just look at them
> instead of reactively becoming defensive.
Assalamu alaikum,
Many people living in Asian countries, for example, have never met any
Jews (or Africans, or African-Americans, for that matter), which would
tend to influence their view... Allah knows best.
Is there really an "objective" view anyhow? I personally don't think
such a thing really exists.
I was speaking to a friend here (I live in Melbourne, Australia) a couple
of days ago, who is from a Vietnamese background (her parents are
Vietnamese but she was raised in Australia). She mentioned how, once
when she went with her school on a trip to the Australian countryside, they
stopped at a store to get refreshments. As she was buying her drink,
she felt the people there were staring at her, and she felt very
uncomfortable.... she thinks it was maybe because they hadn't even seen
someone with an Asian background before, so, to them, she was strange and
unusual. These things can work both ways.... People are often afraid of
the unknown.
Wassalam,
Fariduddien
------------------------------
From: Fred Rice <darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:18:17 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
Assalamu alaikum,
On Wed, 18 Sep 1996, Simon Bryquer wrote:
> Salaams to one and all-------
>
> It's not the mere mention that the translator is Jewish -- but how it is
> mentioned. If you believe how you use words are of no consequence --
> keep in mind that every misunderstanding, war and etc began with words.
> And also in the beginning there was the WORD -- even in Islam:
With all due respect, Simon, I agree with Asim that you seem to be a bit
over-sensitive.... you are reading a heck of a lot of intention into
words which, to me, doesn't seem to necessarily be there....
> REPEAT
>
> But then again you might share the same affinities as Zainuddin and
> then, of course I understand your sentiments.
Translation: disagree with my interpretation, and you can't win,
because I will accuse you of being prejudiced too.
> Then again they're not my prejudices and I don't have to live them.
> So that closes this subject.
See last comment.
Peace,
Fariduddien
------------------------------
From: Fred Rice <darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:32:06 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
On Wed, 18 Sep 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote:
> Asim Jalis wrote:
> > --snip--
> > I think it is
> > appropriate to mention that a translator is Jewish. I mean if I have a copy
> > of the Quran that has been translated by an atheist, then that is something
> > I would like to know. --snip--
> > Asim
> Why?
Assalamu alaikum,
I'm not Asim, but to me it seems relevent because I don't believe that
"objectivity" truly exists... everyone interprets things in the light of
his/her own experiences and knowledge. It would help to know something
about a person's own experiences and knowledge and attitudes to get some
idea of how they approach and interpret a text. With a religious text,
you are (obviously) going to get a different interpretation from a Muslim
as from a religious Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc. Heck, even among Muslims
from different schools of thought you get different interpretations of
some verses, so this just makes sense....
Every translation is an interpretation.... There is no such thing as an
"objective" translation, IMHO....
To take a simple example, take 3rd/4th verse of al-Fatihah....
translating it as "Master of the Day of Doom," "Master of the Day of
Judgement," or "Master of the Day of Religion" may reflect different
emphases, which is a form of interpretation....
To take another example, in the Qur'an you might find the term "the hand
of Allah"... someone who believed this literally, that Allah literally
has a "hand," might translate it this way, as "the hand of Allah."
Someone else, who interprets it metaphorically, might choose to translate
it another way, like "Allah's help" for instance....
Peace,
Fariduddien
------------------------------
From: James McCaig <jmccaig@worldweb.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:54:34 -0400
Subject: Re: sex in full moon
At 05:29 PM 9/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 96-09-18 00:06:47 EDT, you write:
>
>>Sex is not only prohibited during full moon. It is also prohibited during
>>the 1st , middle and last day (full moon) in the Muslim Hijr calendar.
>>The reason for this is because these are the times when Satan have their
>>sex. It is also haram to have sex on the eves of Eidil Adha and Eidil Fitr.
Are we to understand that Satan exists against the wishes of Allah?
Shall we abandon the idea of
La ella ha
Il Allah Hu
??????
Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington
Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore
United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi
jmccaig@worldweb.net
------------------------------
From: ASHA101@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 20:45:41 -0400
Subject: to Jinavasma re: sex in full moon
Dear Jinavamasa,
re:the strange bit about sayten, the full moon and sex prohibitions.
you wrote:
>>>this one is a bit
difficult to connect with *anything* in experience for me.<<<<<<<
I was just reading along and saw something that might be relevant. The
subject was (partly) the Alam-al-Mithal, the Realm of the Creative
Imagination, which is a plane of consciousness. That is not to explain what
this notion full moon and saytan means but that such statements have ther
meaning couched in refrences that require a knowledge of the palace of
mirrors ...
Anyway, the following was from a speach by Zia khan ...
"...according to Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan,
when the organized religions speak of the punishments of hell and the rewards
of paradise, it is a reference to this world (Alam-al-Mithal), where
everything has
its counterpart. Every physical act, every thought, has a form, a subtle
form which corresponds to it and arises out of it. Every form in this
world, every movement, every gesture, everything which comes out of volition
sends ripples into that world and creates that world, because that world was
not created except by us. Which is why it is referred to
as the "plane of creative imagination."
....
- - Asha
------------------------------
End of tariqas-digest V1 #146
*****************************