From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Wed Sep 18 14:30:37 1996
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com
Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #145
tariqas-digest Wednesday, 18 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 145
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@po.pacific.net.sg>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:38:50 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
Assalamu'alaikum waRahmatuLlahi waBarakatuhu !
Let us look at how the different translators have considered the Quranic
"Maliki yau-middeen."
Ross : King of the Day of Judgement(1649)
Sale : The king of the day of judgment(1734)
Rodwell : King on the day of reckoning(1861)
Palmer : The ruler of the day of judgment(1880)
A.Fazl : King on the day of Judgment(1910)
M.Ali : Master of the day of requittal(1917)
G.Sarwar: Master of the day of Judgment(1929)
Pickthall: Owner of the Day of Judgment(1930)
Y.Ali : Master of the Day of Judgment(1934)
Bell : Yielder of the Day of Judgment(1937)
Arberry : The Master of the Day of Doom(1955)
Sher Ali: Master of the Day of Judgment(1955)
Dawood : King of Judgment day!(1956)
A.Majid : Sovereign of the Day of Requittal(1957)-Ahlus Sunnah rendition
Ahmed Ali Master of the Day of Judgment(1964)
A.Lateef Master of the Day of Recompense (1968)
Z.Khan : Master of the Day of Judgment(1971)
This I have exrtacted from Hashim Amir Ali "The Message of the Qur'an"
Judgment is one of the meanings of Din , the other being religion.It would
be useful to see how Shaik Ibn Al Arabi translated the verses of Surat
Fatiha.One more thing: All the translators spent many years in coming up
with the literal translations.Among the above are Qadiani, Shia, Sunni and
Orientalist translators.Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.Sale ostensibly
translated the Quran as a project to vilify the Quran but it is in his notes
that he did what he was paid for.Arberry was a sympathetic Orientalist if
not a Sufi .Pickthall the English Lord and the hero of Ann Freemantle's "Our
Loyal Enemy" produced a translation as faithful to the original zahir
meaning as possible and thus received the approval of Al-Azhar.
I understand that to translate the Quran faithfully ,one must, among other
things, study pre-Islamic poetry for eg that of Mutannabi so that one can
understand how words were used by the early Arabs which was similar to that
understood by the early Muslims.Muhammad Asad a.y. otherwise known as
Leopold Weiss stayed for many years among the Bedouin Arabs to understand
how the early Arabs understood the Quranic terms.Words change meaning over
the years.
If I am being wordy, please forgive and pray for each and everyone of us.Ameen
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:52:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Desire
Hello, everybody!
Ellen L Price wrote:
>
> How beautiful. It sounds the way I feel that marraige should be.
>
> Ellen
>
> On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Imaan Shivani Joshi wrote:
>
> > > Without some form of desire the world would not turn. It is desire that
> > > spurs us on towards our Beloved.
> > > Ellen
> >
> > as salaamu 'alaikum
> > Good point, Ellen:-) I agree with this; to me, desire outside of
> > the lawful/fruitful limits is what is deleterious...
[...]
> > I relate the story of a sister I know; she is greatly interested in
> > tasawwuf, as is, I think her husband; she told me they met he proposed and
> > they went home, prayed on it, and three days later, were married; she gave
> > me an invaluable lesson on marriage; she told me " I do not look lightly
> > at my husband nor do I take him for granted; to me, he is a trust from
> > Allh[swt], and as such, I have to try my hardest to take good care of him
> > for His sake; similarly, he sees me as a trust from Him. This baby that I
> > carry [ she was pregnant then; they have a baby boy now, alHamdulillah.]
> > is similarly a trust and it will be our responsibility as his parents that
> > we bring him up right with the proper values. " masha'Allah, I have never
> > heard this described as such, where each party does this for more than
> > satisfying his own desires. And actions are judged based on intentions,
> > are they not? wasalaam.
Yes, without first there being spirit, then desire with will (force,
power, energy) to follow through, there is no creation, no world of
manifestation, no love, no gravity!
"Thy Will be mine" is the expression that makes the whole day a
prayer... Will of Absolute comes to us and That Will has given each of
us "free will" to use as we desire; such is our spirit, an aspect of
Allah.
Happiness comes as we align our wills with that of our fate. Now just
what is our fate? Doing the work for which we are placed here?
Perhaps... I only know the answer for myself... we each have our
individual religions that we follow, conscious of such or not.
Peace, love, harmony, and beauty, down precious threads of gold,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Moore" <mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:07:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation (thanks)
Thank you all for you information on translations. I will be making
a special folder just for these e-mails. You have re-ignited my
desire to learn Arabic. Inshallah.
I realized when I posted my question that there was unlikely to
be materials directly focused on translations of those suras and
duas most commonly related to salaat. You see, for now, my
intention is to perfect (as much as possible) my salaat.
After this is done, only then do I feel It is appropriate
for me to take up the study of Arabic. This is only a question
of time budgeting.
Again, thanks!
- --
Michael J. Moore
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:31:09 -0700
Subject: Re: translation and transliteration
Green Mountain School wrote:
>
> as-salaamu 'alaykum,
>
[...]
> the real thing tho is the striving or searching for meaning that rises out
> of our seeking to understand what Allah means {and what Allah wants from
> us} and in this arabic {as is true with the other semitic languages which
> serve as vehicles for revelation such as aramaic, syriac, hebrew etc}
> renders such subtle meaning that you can actually begin to 'smell' meaning
> and follow it down thru deeping levels not as some obscure linguistic word
> play but as the attempt to understand what is absolutely vital to your own
> meaning as a human in relation with the Supreme Being.
>
> wa-llaahu 'alim, wa salaam
>
> A. N. Durkee
Thanks, dear one, for your insight and feeling re Arabic... in my
studies of Aramaic I come away with the same feelings... these old
languages seem to be so much closer to the earth and to the spirit than
Greek or English. I know bias is here, but such study and learning
appears necessary on our path to fulfillment.
Peace and love,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: Abdin Chande <achande@osprey.smcm.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 03:48:55 -0400
Subject: The Problem of Suffering
Salaams to all!
I wonder if anyone would be willing to share their insights on the
problem of suffering in the world from any religious or philosophical
standpoint/tradition, including Islam/sufism, Judaism, Christianity,
Hinduism, Budhism etc. Here are some of the questions that may guide
your response: is suffering a) a consequence of sins;
b) a test from God to strengthen faith (e.g. the story of Job); c)
the working out of nature which is morally blind and does not
distinguish between good and bad when dishing out calamities (this
is, for instance, the view advanced in rabbi Kushner's book "When bad
Things happen to good people"); d) the product of capitalism which
leads to the problem of alienation (Karl Marx)--and other secular
viewpoints informed by Freudianism, existentialism, utilitarianism
etc What about ethnic suffering--North & South American Indians,
Aborigines in Australia, Blacks in the U.S. etc--what is the meaning
of their suffering? Critics of religion argue that if God is
Good/merciful/in control etc why is evil/ atrocities allowed to take
place? Liberation theologians have wrestled with these thorny
questions (the conservativism of the Catholic church/establishment
notwithstanding). Why are some children born deformed, or people
(some rather than others) struck down by cancer, liver disease,
depression etc? Why is the restoration of justice promised in the
afterlife and not in this life? These are some of the questions as
well as objections that are usually raised when the problem of
suffering is discussed.
Thanks for your input
A.C.
------------------------------
From: Simon Bryquer <sbryquer@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:22:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
Salaams to one and all and to Zainuddin Ismail,
I don't understand the intent of your statement:
'Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.'
What do you mean by _HOWEVER_.
Are you implying that because he is a Jew is translation must be viewed
in a different light -- or what.
Now I know by your posts that you have excellent command of the English
language, thus I must assume your use of words to be conscious, and
cannot be attributed as the errors or misuse of a second language. I
must say also that I view, as in some of your other posts, your
references to Jews as not being quite objective -- even somewhat
prejudiced.
I know you defended this position once before, but somehow in re-emerges
in the things you write/say.
Salaams
Simon
Zainuddin Ismail wrote:
>
> Assalamu'alaikum waRahmatuLlahi waBarakatuhu !
> Let us look at how the different translators have considered the Quranic
> "Maliki yau-middeen."
> Ross : King of the Day of Judgement(1649)
> Sale : The king of the day of judgment(1734)
> Rodwell : King on the day of reckoning(1861)
> Palmer : The ruler of the day of judgment(1880)
> A.Fazl : King on the day of Judgment(1910)
> M.Ali : Master of the day of requittal(1917)
> G.Sarwar: Master of the day of Judgment(1929)
> Pickthall: Owner of the Day of Judgment(1930)
> Y.Ali : Master of the Day of Judgment(1934)
> Bell : Yielder of the Day of Judgment(1937)
> Arberry : The Master of the Day of Doom(1955)
> Sher Ali: Master of the Day of Judgment(1955)
> Dawood : King of Judgment day!(1956)
> A.Majid : Sovereign of the Day of Requittal(1957)-Ahlus Sunnah rendition
> Ahmed Ali Master of the Day of Judgment(1964)
> A.Lateef Master of the Day of Recompense (1968)
> Z.Khan : Master of the Day of Judgment(1971)
>
> This I have exrtacted from Hashim Amir Ali "The Message of the Qur'an"
> Judgment is one of the meanings of Din , the other being religion.It would
> be useful to see how Shaik Ibn Al Arabi translated the verses of Surat
> Fatiha.One more thing: All the translators spent many years in coming up
> with the literal translations.Among the above are Qadiani, Shia, Sunni and
> Orientalist translators.Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.
------------------------------
From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@po.pacific.net.sg>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 07:13:58 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
As Salamu alaikum waRahmatullahi waBarakatuhu.
The prejudice is not from my side.I hold Dawood's translation to be among
the best because of the grandeur of his language.This is surprising because
of his background while most Muslim translators dont reach the mark except
perhaps for Muhammad Asad my favourite translator himself of ethnically
Jewish background.
I am just giving information about the different translators.That is the
reason for my informing my friends on the e-mail about Dawood's background.I
will come back later after I return from work.Love to you and your loved ones.
At 18:22 9/17/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Salaams to one and all and to Zainuddin Ismail,
>
>
>I don't understand the intent of your statement:
>
>'Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.'
>
>What do you mean by _HOWEVER_.
>
>Are you implying that because he is a Jew is translation must be viewed
>in a different light -- or what.
>
>Now I know by your posts that you have excellent command of the English
>language, thus I must assume your use of words to be conscious, and
>cannot be attributed as the errors or misuse of a second language. I
>must say also that I view, as in some of your other posts, your
>references to Jews as not being quite objective -- even somewhat
>prejudiced.
>
>I know you defended this position once before, but somehow in re-emerges
>in the things you write/say.
>
>Salaams
>
>Simon
>
>
>
>
>Zainuddin Ismail wrote:
>>
>> Assalamu'alaikum waRahmatuLlahi waBarakatuhu !
>> Let us look at how the different translators have considered the Quranic
>> "Maliki yau-middeen."
>> Ross : King of the Day of Judgement(1649)
>> Sale : The king of the day of judgment(1734)
>> Rodwell : King on the day of reckoning(1861)
>> Palmer : The ruler of the day of judgment(1880)
>> A.Fazl : King on the day of Judgment(1910)
>> M.Ali : Master of the day of requittal(1917)
>> G.Sarwar: Master of the day of Judgment(1929)
>> Pickthall: Owner of the Day of Judgment(1930)
>> Y.Ali : Master of the Day of Judgment(1934)
>> Bell : Yielder of the Day of Judgment(1937)
>> Arberry : The Master of the Day of Doom(1955)
>> Sher Ali: Master of the Day of Judgment(1955)
>> Dawood : King of Judgment day!(1956)
>> A.Majid : Sovereign of the Day of Requittal(1957)-Ahlus Sunnah rendition
>> Ahmed Ali Master of the Day of Judgment(1964)
>> A.Lateef Master of the Day of Recompense (1968)
>> Z.Khan : Master of the Day of Judgment(1971)
>>
>> This I have exrtacted from Hashim Amir Ali "The Message of the Qur'an"
>> Judgment is one of the meanings of Din , the other being religion.It would
>> be useful to see how Shaik Ibn Al Arabi translated the verses of Surat
>> Fatiha.One more thing: All the translators spent many years in coming up
>> with the literal translations.Among the above are Qadiani, Shia, Sunni and
>> Orientalist translators.Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.
>
>
------------------------------
From: Lilyan Kay <lilyan@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation (thanks)
asalaam-u-aleikum
I have a small pamphlet called "Short Suras of the Holy Qur'aan" by M.
Zakiuddin Sharfi which might interest you. It includes Suras Fatiha, Nas,
Falaq, Ikhlas, Masad, Nasr, Kafiroon, Kauthar, Maun, Quraish, Fil, Humaza,
and 'Asr. It has Arabic with the translation under it, and the
transliteration on the opposite page with commentary from Pickthall under
it. I have found it a very good way to memorize, as the book can be placed
at eye level to read during salat, until you know it. Also the type is
big which makes it somehow less intimidating.
I bought it in a bookstore off Atlantic Ave. in Brooklyn. The publisher
is:
Saut-Ul-Islam
Box 221
Princeton, NJ 08542
peace and blessings
Lily
On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote:
> for now, my
> intention is to perfect (as much as possible) my salaat.
> After this is done, only then do I feel It is appropriate
> for me to take up the study of Arabic. This is only a question
> of time budgeting.
>
> Again, thanks!
> --
> Michael J. Moore
>
------------------------------
From: Gale <gale@SineWave.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:54:45 -0700
Subject: Mother of languages
Brother Zainubiddin wrote:
> While on the subject of Quranic Arabic , can we also discuss the view
> that just as Makkah ,actually the Bacca of the Psalms of the Bible , =
is the
> Mother of the Cities -Ummul Qura- so also Arabic is the Mother of all
> languages.Many important studies have been made on this =
topic.Unfortunately
> my books on this subject were borrowed by a friend who has yet to =
return them.
What do you mean by "Mother of all languages"? The first? If this is =
what you mean, you will have a very difficult time convincing me of this =
given the written archeological record. The tribes of Thamud, the =
Lihyanites, etc. seem to have settled into North Arabia from the north, =
and their stone inscriptions do not date much past 500 BC. The =
languages of the Arabian peninsula have undergone many, many =
permutations whereby what we call Arabic today has limited resemblance =
to the earlier languages of the previous millenium.=20
The claims for a mother of languages as a source of the sacred word are =
found in many traditions: Chinese, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Tamil, to name but =
a few. Even in early Syrian Christianity, Syriac was believed to be the =
"mother" of languages, and there is very strong evidence to support the =
theory that the Arabic script finds its precursor in the Syriac of the =
Arabs of Hira and Anbar, carried to Duma and from there to Mecca (cf. S. =
Trimingham, Christianity Among the Arabs in Pre-Islamic Times, London, =
1979; and see F. Peters's Muhammad and the Origins of Islam, SUNY Press, =
1994). Or possibly Arabic descends from the Nabataean script, a =
sister language of Syriac (R. Ebied, Syriac Influence on the Arabic =
Language and Literature, paper at 3rd Symposium Syriacum, Rome, 1980). =
In addition, the Quran is full of loan words from Syriac and other =
Semitic languages (cf. A. Jeffrey, Foreign Words of the Koran; and G. =
Widengren, Muhammad and His Ascension, Uppsala Sweden).=20
IMHO, the mother of all languages is one's own language, the sounds of =
the letters are as living entities within one, and any claims other than =
that are myth. When i lived in a Tibetan monastery, there was a =
visualization practice we did every morning which was to review the =
sounds of the Sanskrit alphabet as abiding within us, to listen to their =
taking form out of the void of consciousness before starting our =
mantras. This same practice can be traced to earlier Kashmir Shaivite =
and Bengali Tantric practices.
Anyway, i would be interested in what sources and studies you are =
referring to support this claim.
Blessings to all,
Nur Richard Gale
------------------------------
From: Simon Bryquer <sbryquer@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:21:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
Salaams to one and all . . .
Zainuddin Ismail --
This is exactly my point as shown below:
'This is surprising because of his background . . . of ethnically Jewish
background.'
Are you of ehtnically Muslim background or are you a Muslim?
It is surprising to you because of prejudices that are even hidden from
yourself -- the worst kind. You don't even realize it in spite of your
avowed admiration, quite often this pattern of softning the judgement
belies prejudice. Here in this country (circa 1950 and even now), white
people unaccustomed to being in the company of Black/African American
would often say things like, and this is a cliche to summarize the notion
of the intent --'You people have alot of rhythm.' -- also meant as a
compliment. But was it?
You are perhaps surprise by Dawood because you might be ignorant of
Jewish scholarship. Jewish scholar throughout history made it a point
to study and be open to all endeavor of learning that dealt with truth
and particualrly in work of religion. In the the Middle Ages they were
the first, not among the first, but I repeat the first to translate the
most important religious tracts from Arabic and Hebrew into Latin and
Greek. Who do you think first translated the Torah/Old Testament from the
Hebrew.
I am pointing this out to you, because I feel you not quite aware that
you even have these prejudices, seeing yourself as an objective student
of the Muslim faith -- but take my word, you have them, just look at them
instead of reactively becoming defensive.
Salaams ----
Simon
Zainuddin Ismail wrote:
>
> As Salamu alaikum waRahmatullahi waBarakatuhu.
> The prejudice is not from my side.I hold Dawood's translation to be among
> the best because of the grandeur of his language.This is surprising because
> of his background while most Muslim translators dont reach the mark except
> perhaps for Muhammad Asad my favourite translator himself of ethnically
> Jewish background.
> I am just giving information about the different translators.That is the
> reason for my informing my friends on the e-mail about Dawood's background.I
> will come back later after I return from work.Love to you and your loved ones.
> At 18:22 9/17/96 -0700, you wrote:
> >Salaams to one and all and to Zainuddin Ismail,
> >
> >
> >I don't understand the intent of your statement:
> >
> >'Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.'
> >
> >What do you mean by _HOWEVER_.
> >
> >Are you implying that because he is a Jew is translation must be viewed
> >in a different light -- or what.
> >
> >Now I know by your posts that you have excellent command of the English
> >language, thus I must assume your use of words to be conscious, and
> >cannot be attributed as the errors or misuse of a second language. I
> >must say also that I view, as in some of your other posts, your
> >references to Jews as not being quite objective -- even somewhat
> >prejudiced.
> >
> >I know you defended this position once before, but somehow in re-emerges
> >in the things you write/say.
> >
> >Salaams
> >
> >Simon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Zainuddin Ismail wrote:
> >>
> >> Assalamu'alaikum waRahmatuLlahi waBarakatuhu !
> >> Let us look at how the different translators have considered the Quranic
> >> "Maliki yau-middeen."
> >> Ross : King of the Day of Judgement(1649)
> >> Sale : The king of the day of judgment(1734)
> >> Rodwell : King on the day of reckoning(1861)
> >> Palmer : The ruler of the day of judgment(1880)
> >> A.Fazl : King on the day of Judgment(1910)
> >> M.Ali : Master of the day of requittal(1917)
> >> G.Sarwar: Master of the day of Judgment(1929)
> >> Pickthall: Owner of the Day of Judgment(1930)
> >> Y.Ali : Master of the Day of Judgment(1934)
> >> Bell : Yielder of the Day of Judgment(1937)
> >> Arberry : The Master of the Day of Doom(1955)
> >> Sher Ali: Master of the Day of Judgment(1955)
> >> Dawood : King of Judgment day!(1956)
> >> A.Majid : Sovereign of the Day of Requittal(1957)-Ahlus Sunnah rendition
> >> Ahmed Ali Master of the Day of Judgment(1964)
> >> A.Lateef Master of the Day of Recompense (1968)
> >> Z.Khan : Master of the Day of Judgment(1971)
> >>
> >> This I have exrtacted from Hashim Amir Ali "The Message of the Qur'an"
> >> Judgment is one of the meanings of Din , the other being religion.It would
> >> be useful to see how Shaik Ibn Al Arabi translated the verses of Surat
> >> Fatiha.One more thing: All the translators spent many years in coming up
> >> with the literal translations.Among the above are Qadiani, Shia, Sunni and
> >> Orientalist translators.Dawood however is an Iraqi Jew.
> >
> >
------------------------------
From: "M.I.S. DEPT" <NOORDIN%SXN1@orange.printronix.com>
Date: Tue, 17 SEP 96 20:46:56
Subject: Re: Desire
Prohibition of sex in Islam
Sex with one's wife, apart from that mentioned by bro Zainuddin, is also
prohibited during the eve of the 2 days of Eid (AidilAdha and AidilFitr).
Apart from full moon, sex is prohibited in the eve of 1st month and end of
month in the Hijr calendar. The reasons for this is because these are the
times Satan chooses to have sex.
Regards,
\
Noordin
------------------------------
From: "M.I.S. DEPT" <NOORDIN%SXN1@orange.printronix.com>
Date: Tue, 17 SEP 96 20:58:16
Subject: sex in full moon
Sex is not only prohibited during full moon. It is also prohibited during
the 1st , middle and last day (full moon) in the Muslim Hijr calendar.
The reason for this is because these are the times when Satan have their
sex. It is also haram to have sex on the eves of Eidil Adha and Eidil Fitr.
Regards,
Noordin
------------------------------
From: Asim Jalis <jalis@math.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 23:52:31 CDT
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
I'm not reproducing the messages in the interests of brevity. I think it is
appropriate to mention that a translator is Jewish. I mean if I have a copy
of the Quran that has been translated by an atheist, then that is something
I would like to know. Surely mentioning that Dawood is Jewish does not mean
that a person is an anti-Semite.
Aren't we being just a wee bit over-sensitive here, perhaps? Also I hope my
lack of outrage at this alleged instance of anti-Semitism doesn't mean that
I too am now an anti-Semite.
Asim
------------------------------
From: Simon Bryquer <sbryquer@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 01:12:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
Salaams to one and all-------
It's not the mere mention that the translator is Jewish -- but how it is
mentioned. If you believe how you use words are of no consequence --
keep in mind that every misunderstanding, war and etc began with words.
And also in the beginning there was the WORD -- even in Islam:
REPEAT
But then again you might share the same affinities as Zainuddin and
then, of course I understand your sentiments.
Then again they're not my prejudices and I don't have to live them.
So that closes this subject.
Salaams
Simon
Asim Jalis wrote:
>
> I'm not reproducing the messages in the interests of brevity. I think it is
> appropriate to mention that a translator is Jewish. I mean if I have a copy
> of the Quran that has been translated by an atheist, then that is something
> I would like to know. Surely mentioning that Dawood is Jewish does not mean
> that a person is an anti-Semite.
>
> Aren't we being just a wee bit over-sensitive here, perhaps? Also I hope my
> lack of outrage at this alleged instance of anti-Semitism doesn't mean that
> I too am now an anti-Semite.
> Asim
------------------------------
From: Jinavamsa@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 03:05:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Transliteration/translation
In a message dated 96-09-18 00:54:18 EDT, you write:
>
>I'm not reproducing the messages in the interests of brevity. I think it is
>appropriate to mention that a translator is Jewish. I mean if I have a copy
>of the Quran that has been translated by an atheist, then that is something
>I would like to know. Surely mentioning that Dawood is Jewish does not mean
>that a person is an anti-Semite.
>
>Aren't we being just a wee bit over-sensitive here, perhaps? Also I hope my
>lack of outrage at this alleged instance of anti-Semitism doesn't mean that
>I too am now an anti-Semite.
> Asim
>
>
hello Asim and all,
I did not sense your being either a hater, or lover, of Jews from your
posting above. (I assume, perhaps too easily, that by "Semitic" you do *not*
include all those people and groups once-or-still speaking any of the Semitic
languages, ... of which Arabic is a fine example.)
It may well be appropriate to mention the religious background or viewpoint
of a person translating a religious text: Why not mention the Christian
backgrounds of some of the translators who might have appeared as well? Or
how religious each translator really was at the time of the translating? (Was
he touched by the Spirit of the Lord when he was translating?, as some from
some religious backgrounds might express it) Why not distinguish between
which tradition of Islam each given translator was from, as well, so that
these perspectives (which some might call biases) could be made explicit, as
well? That is certainly one approach to translation critiquing.
On the other hand, perhaps the translations themselves could be looked at and
evaluated in terms of *their* quality.
There was, however and moreover, that little word "however" which does
suggest that a contrast is being raised.
I myself thought for a moment that it might have been because that translator
was an *Iraqi* Jew, whereas the person who raised *his* question about that
comment, thought that it was because that translator was an Iraqi *Jew*. But
the first interpretation suggests that the other translators were Jews from
other places, and the second, that the others were non-Jews from Iraq or who
knows whence. I have no access to the family trees of any of these people
(translators), so I'm really at a loss on how to continue making judgments
here. But there remains the puzzling question of what the "however" added to
the comment and the list.
In all of these replies to the original question here, no one seems to have
mentioned how there could have been two renderings into English of the Arabic
din in the first place. Isn't that of interest to anyone?
(This is the -din of Allahddin, Jalaluddin, Majduddin, Najmuddin, etc etc.)
leaving this perhaps more puzzled than ever,
in confusion but in peace,
Jinavamsa
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End of tariqas-digest V1 #145
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