From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Wed Sep 18 14:19:45 1996
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com
Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com
Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #128
tariqas-digest Thursday, 5 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 128
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Asim Jalis <jalis@math.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 08:09:04 CDT
Subject: Re: Prayer for World Peace
Zainuddin Ismail writes:
> The Americans are cruelly bombing Iraq although the sins of the
> latter are largely the work of Saddam Hussain himself a one-time
> stooge of USA and presently of Satan.The people , the children are
> innocent.Is this the work of a Christian nation ? Every day
> believers such as yourself are praying for peace.We Muslims pray for
> peace five times a day with the following prayer
This talk of "you" and "we" smells too much of the self. Let's abort
this pointless and depressing thread.
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 06:45:41 -0700
Subject: RUMI 994
FIND YOURSELF A FRIEND
who is willing to
tolerate you with patience
put to the test the essence
of the best incense
by putting it in fire
drink a cup of poison
if handed to you by a friend
when filled with love and grace
step into the fire
like the chosen prophet
the secret love will change
hot flames to a garden
covered with blossoms
roses and hyacinths and willow
spinning and throwing you
a true friend can hold you
like God and His universe
RUMI, ghazal number 994, translated March 12, 1992, by Nader
Khalili.
tanzen
------------------------------
From: Lilyan Kay <lilyan@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Atonement
asalaam-u-aleikum
What I got from David's beautiful description was (1) Jesus wanted to
sacrifice himself because he had reached the stage of marifat where
'everything is good', where he willed only what Allah swt willed - much as
Prophet Ishmael wished to do so and (2) that the outcome, resurrection or
in the Islamic understanding avoidance of death (by both Jesus and
Ishmael) were Allah's (swt) signs that our perceptions of death and
suffering are stunted, that such events are not punishments and that
something wonderful awaits those who have patience and faith.
We have seen this described here, in fact - this deeper understanding of
suffering. I have come to know this as a midwife watching women give
birth. (oops, here I go again - sorry to bore those who don't want to
hear about women). In the mainstream American Christian view as I
understand it (I could be wrong as I have never been Christian and am only
saying what I've heard) this is considered Eve's curse - once again,
punishment for something someone else did. This is the god I don't believe
in. But clearly the experience of birth is far more than physical
suffering and is a great example of how such experience changes us in
wonderful ways.
peace and blessings to all
Lily
------------------------------
From: Gale <gale@SineWave.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:32:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Paraclete? maybe
John, enjoyed your post. When you wrote
> Talk about a Trinity
Well, i was raised an eastern European Catholic. So the best i could =
make it out while i was growing up was that the Trinity was: St. Jude =
to help you find your glasses and car keys, St. Christopher to keep you =
safe while traveling from one place to another, and everything else in =
the universe was managed by Mary.
Blessings,
Nur
------------------------------
From: Simon Bryquer <sbryquer@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 12:24:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Atonement
Salaams Lily---
Who and where did you get the impression that we don't want to hear
about women -- I don't know about anyone elsein the group, but
speak on to your hearts content. I'm listening.
Salaams to one and all
Simon
============================================================
Lilyan Kay wrote:
>
> asalaam-u-aleikum
SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP
> We have seen this described here, in fact - this deeper understanding of
> suffering. I have come to know this as a midwife watching women give
> birth. (oops, here I go again - sorry to bore those who don't want to
> hear about women).
SNIP SNIP SNIP
> peace and blessings to all
>
> Lily
------------------------------
From: ias@ias.org (International Association of Sufism)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:30:07 -0800
Subject: Sufism & Psychology Forum
If you are a Sufi Psychologist, you are invited to join:
New Addition: Sufism & Psychology Forum.
Bringing together Sufi scholars, educators, translators, and the public,
the International Association of Sufism serves as a resource center for the
study of Sufism, with a world-wide membership.
We are pleased to announce the latest addition to the International
Association of Sufism: the Sufism and Psychology Forum (SPF). Welcoming
Sufi psychologists and couynseling professionals, the SPF will explore the
relationship between the study of Sufism and of psychology, and will bring
together the application of Sufi principles and practices and the study of
psychology through research, translation and discussion.
In order to open and maintain dialogue between Sufi psychologists
and to facilitate the integration of Sufi principles into the practice of
psychology, the SPF department plans to:
* sponsor seminars and lectures presented by Sufi Psychologists, as
well as hold informal meetings to discuss related topics;
* provide a web site bulletin board for exchanging short articles and
other information of interest related to both Sufism and psychology;
* establish a moderated IRC line;
* publish a quarterly newsletter (available both through the internet
and by mail);
* publish books on Sufi Psychology; and
* expand the IAS research library
The Sufism and Psychology Forum is not affiliated with any one Sufi school
or order.
You are Invited!
This Department is looking for a limited number of new members to
join the Sufism and Psychology Forum. Members will be encouraged to
contribute articles for the newsletter and to participate in lectures and
seminars.
If you are a Sufi and a psychologist, counselor or other mental
health professional, and are interested in joining this exciting forum,
please fill out the membership form and return it to IAS.
We look forward to hearing from you.
=46or more information, comments, questions, please contact us a spf@ias.org=
------------------------------
From: maarof <maarof@pc.jaring.my>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 02:30:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Prayer for World Peace
Zainuddin Ismail wrote (among other things):
> [...]
> Allahumma antas Salam
> Wa minkas Salam
> Tabarakta Ya zaljali wal ikram
>
> O Allah Thou art Peace
> Peace comes from Thee
> Blessed are Thou O Lord of Majesty and Bounty
> [...]
Amin
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Moore" <mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 11:47:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Prayer for World Peace
Hello Zainuddin,
Let me ask you this. Do you think it is ok to kill a few people in order
to save the lives of many? I believe that this is the primary
justification
for the attack. Surely you must know about how Saddam has used chemical
warfare on the Kurds in the past, killing 10's of thousands of men women
and children. (At least this is what I am told.) Myself, I do not know
if
the action is justified or not, I just thank allah that he has not put
me
in the position of having to make that decision.
Zainuddin Ismail wrote:
>
> As Salamu alaikum waRahmatullahi waBarakatuhu!
> The Americans are cruelly bombing Iraq although the sins of the latter are
> largely the work of Saddam Hussain himself a one-time stooge of USA and
> presently of Satan.The people , the children are innocent.
Yes they are innocent and it is reprehensible that Saddam uses them for
a human shield to protect this military machine. And it is sad when
bombs
miss there target and kill innocent people. And it is sad that we as
humans
cannot figure out how to solve problems without resulting to physical
force.
> Is this the work
> of a Christian nation ?
No, this is not a Christian nation! It is a nation of many religions.
Inshallah
the balance between these religions will become better as more brothers
and
sisters come and make this country their home. I Pray that more Muslims
will
come and more Jews, and more Wiccans, and Shamans and Pagans, Hindus,
Buddists
Sieks, Atheists, and Agnostics.
Then these people will become members of our secular government and it
will
not favor or hinder any religion.
> Every day believers such as yourself are praying for peace.We Muslims pray
> for peace five times a day with the following prayer
>
"Prayer without Knowledge" has no power. If it did, then there would be
no
schools because every child prays that schools will disappear.
This is what Idres Shah says and I believe it.
> Everyday Muslims go about wishing peace for everyone with the words As
> Salamu alaikum w.w.The more people realise that they are actually praying
> for peace ceaselessly the faster peace will come but it looks like war
> mongers and America's war lobby are praying for war actually for Armageddon
> the Last Great War.
I hate war and wonder if anything justifies it, but I think you are
worng here.
I don't believe that America's war lobby are praying for Armageddon.
Maybe I am
just naive but I believe we want peace and fairness.
- --
Michael J. Moore
------------------------------
From: Aaron McEmrys <iceblink@teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 13:07:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Information about Gabriel?
What a great post!
I've always been drawn to Gabriel as well
There's an Archangel Gabriel website at
http://www.france.com/angels/layani.html
You can find a really cool portrait at
http://www.braid.com/folioju3-7.html
the name of the picture is "Cartesian Stained Glass", I believe.
In Gustave Davidson's "A Dictionary of Angels", Gabriel is the angel of
annunciation, ressurection, mercy, vengeance, death, and revelation
(quite a job description, huh?).Mohammed describes Gabriel as "of the
140 pairs of wings".
In Jewish legend, Gabriel destroyed Sodom and Gommorah. Joan of Arc
testified that it was Gabriel who inspired her to take up arms.
Supposedly Gabriel left a footprint on a limestone slab in New Harmony,
Indiana while visiting Father George Rapp, leader of the 2nd Advent
community.
There is quite a bit more here, so if anybody is interested I'd be
happy to provide whatever I can.
from Steps to the Temple, by Richard Crashaw - 17th century,
"Heaven's Golden-Winged Herald, late he saw
to a poor Galilean virgin sent,
how low the Bright Youth bow'd, and with what awe
Immortal Flowers to her faire hand present."
this is lyric account of Gabriel bringing news of Jesus' impending
birth to Mary.
in peace, Aaron
------------------------------
From: maarof <maarof@pc.jaring.my>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 04:45:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Information about Gabriel?
Aaron McEmrys wrote:
[...]
> In Gustave Davidson's "A Dictionary of Angels", Gabriel is the angel of
> annunciation, ressurection, mercy, vengeance, death, and revelation
> (quite a job description, huh?).Mohammed describes Gabriel as "of the
> 140 pairs of wings".[...]
>
> in peace, Aaron
I think there's a hadith about description of Gabriel as a
gigantic being of light ... "as high as the heaven."
My guess about the description of "140 wings" is Gabriel
can move very fast.
salam
maarof
------------------------------
From: Aaron McEmrys <iceblink@teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 14:34:55 -0700
Subject: Re: to break ones knees
Dear Jabriel,
I've been learning a lot about "Caesar and the Spiritual World" over tha
last few years. Believe me, I am still miles away from integrating all
of this into my day to day experience, but I too am working on it.
To be "in the world, but not of it."
One of the things I really try to keep in front of me is this; with
every experience, every choice or activity, I ask myself "what is the
significance of this?" - I have a tendency to only see the things right
in front of my face, the immediate world. I'm always "doing" or
"feeling" or some other verb - and when I do pull back and see the
bigger picture - I realise that I've allowed my "life" to enslave me!
I *do* hear your wish to simplify, simplify, simplify...
I'm in the process, right now - of selling my business, my house, and
anything else that has become blinding to me. I feel like a snake
shedding it's skin.
It's a scary transition, but a liberating one.
In order for me to succeed in business it seemed like I needed to
channel *so* much of my will, my being (not to mention my time) into the
store that all the parts of me that needed growth or expression were
pre-empted by the needs of economy and day to day survival. I saw my son
all of four hours a day, never went camping, was too tired to go out
with my wife...and for what?
Everybody is different of course, but as you say, "all the love has a
most difficult time coming through.." all this STUFF, whatever it is!
I feel like I'm reclaiming my life (again - why can't I just learn my
lessons the first time?!), scaling down so that more of me is free for
loving, learning, and growing.
I never even noticed my enforced celibacy. I was in so much pain that
sex became a *very* abstract concept. My need for love however, grew a
great deal. I got so used to the idea that, as a parapelegic, I could
never make love - that my psyche didn't bother thinking about it at all
any more!
When I did finally make love again though! I'm sure I treasure the
experience much more now than I ever could have. I still have some
paralasys from the waist down. My sensory apparatus is quite numb most
of the time. But when I make love - really make *love*, it feels like
love floods into all those empty, damaged spaces, leaving me much
*fuller* each time. I don't know how else to describe it.
I wish you the best in celibacy, as in everything else.
Your writing is very beautiful, and very true for me - it does me good
to see other people working on the same lessons as I am.
Amen to all your words and struggles. What you've written is a
wonderful prayer - thank you for sharing.
Aaron
------------------------------
From: Simon Bryquer <sbryquer@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 17:39:59 -0700
Subject: Re: academia or Heart-Mind and oether Dualisms (somewhat long)
Salaams Nur ---
Getting back to your original question of heart-mind dualism,
particularly regarding the West in the world of mysticism and especially
tariqas being anti-intellectual -- I will only answer from my life
experiences and observations, no wanting to bore the rest of the group
with an overly scholarly reply.
First I am not anti-intellectual. But I believe if one embarks upon a
path, a search for the Divine, whatever the discipline, balance is the
key factor, balance of heart, mind, body and soul. In a way you've
already answered your own question, that is if the academic is a
practitioner or devoted to some contemplative path the problem of
imbalance diminishes.
To follow a mystic path means active practical, hopefully, objective
participation as opposed to scholarship/academia which is for the most
part passive 'objective' observance (here I mean watching of course, not
adherence). Also a difference must be made between the theologian and
the scholar-practitioner, the latter having 'heard the ringing of the
bell' ( the expression used by sheikhs in the Nasqbandiyya for being
summoned) and then investigating or rather dwelling deeper into the
tradition that attracted them. But whatever the aspiration of the seeker,
be it intellectual or whatever it's opposite may be --too much heart or
too much body and yes even sometimes too much soul (here I mean
ungrounded spiritual seeking) -- it is hoped that these are transformed
or better yet transmuted by the sheikh's guidance into balancing all the
elements towards unity and harmony with the Divine and His Creation.
As to the question of one sheikh being an artisan with little
education attracting intellectuals to his circle and the learned sheikh
having mureeds of anti-intellectual bends-- that is quite common. I
believe it's simply a matter of as Gurdieff said and did:When an
intellectual wanted to join he would hand him/her a shovel(as he did to
many of the English contingent) when he was approached by a laborer he
handed him a book. Also in my opinion a very necessary ingredient is the
aptitude for reading the symbolic language of life.To illustrate: One can
for example being taught to analyze and appreciate a novel or text,
science and etc but no matter how much you break it down you can never
teach someone to 'get' a poem -- that is a gift/aptitude. Some read
a poem once and they 'get' and some study it for years and dont. In fact
I know many people that have studied poems for years and don't 'get'
them. I believe anyone embarking on a mystic path has the yearning for
the poetry of religion/Faith, while those who don't stay within the
orthodoxy. By poetry here I mean the need to understand and absorb the
symbols and signs of the Divine in life that cannot be put into words, a
need for absolute contact and unraveling the mysteries and secrets of the
Divine.
Now in Kabbalah, for instance, it is, almost, a prerequisite to have a
certain amount of knowledge and learning before one even embarks on this
journey -- and I'm not speaking of the dictum of the rabbis, saying that
'one must have a belly full of the Talmud and Torah' --of entering the
sacred( some say secret) garden of the Kabbalah. And Kabbalah does not
have the structure of tariqas, that is of groups, at most it is acquired
with a teacher and perhaps one or two other student. But this another
story and this post is already going on too long -- so I'll save for an
another time if you're interested.
If I've bored some in the group, forgive me
Salaams to one and all
Simon
>
> >----- Forwarded message (Gale <gale@SineWave.com>) wrote:
>
>
> Greetings Simon, i look forward to your post.
>
> It has been a strange experience for me since i belong to two tariqas, =
> completely unrelated. In one, the pir is extremely learned, intellectual one might say, as well as having a very deep spirituality =
> in communion with the Divine. Yet the majority of the mureeds in this
> group are anti-intellectual and many live in heart-mind dualism. The =
> other pir is a shawl embroiderer of little education on the Indian =
> subcontinent and yet the majority of his mureeds are professors and =
> professionals and very well-learned persons who dive into mystical =
> literature with a heart's passion. Hmmm... i just find this to be a =
> very curious scenario.
>
> Blessings to all,
>
> Nur
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 14:48:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Paraclete #1 (short side bar)
Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim
maarof wrote:
>
> On Wed, 04 Sep 1996, Tanzen wrote:
> [...]
> >
> >If we take the near-koan "All is true, but nothing is real" we have so
> >much to think about that the brain may simply turn-off, that it might be
> >better to go back to meditation or other practices, let spirit overwhelm
> >us. Think: where is the center of infinity, where are the edges?
> Where is the center of infinity?
> answer: Life
Okay, okay! <grin> What is life?
> Where are the edges?
> answer: Death
You know the question: What is death?
After these two, let's try: What is spirit, mind, and matter?
al-Hamdu'lillah
Peace and love, dear brother,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: frank gaude <frank@sierra.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:06:18 -0700
Subject: Re: paraclete #2 (my concluding remarks)
Hello, everybody!
Gale wrote:
>
> Greetings and peace.
>
> It is my wish that in our sharing on this topic, it may be possible to find
> a point of agreement, a kind of marriage, between the Islamic and Christian
> perspectives, and now we seem to be including Judaism.
[...]
> So I believe Allah provides humanity with all the signs for us to get away > from either/or thinking (either Muslim way or the Christian way or the
> Jewish way) which only creates division and agreement is never and will
> never be found with this kind of limited thinking, and shows us that things
> can be seen as both this AND this (Muslim and Jewish and Christian ways as
> truth). One cannot look at something properly with one eye, but needs both
> for proper stereoscopic sight and to perceive something's depth.
Thanks, Nur Gale, for your scholarly piece... truly Allah has provided
each of us with the material we need to find our way home.
Simon wrote:
> First I am not anti-intellectual. But I believe if one embarks upon a
> path, a search for the Divine, whatever the discipline, balance is the
> key factor, balance of heart, mind, body and soul. In a way you've
> already answered your own question, that is if the academic is a
> practitioner or devoted to some contemplative path the problem of
> imbalance diminishes.
[...]
Thanks, Simon, for your gentleness. "Balance is the key factor... " Yep,
coming into consciousness that spirit, mind, and matter are tied
together tightly, that without all three there is nothing, there is
void, vacuum, stillness, and no "life". Divinity is at hand! <smile>
O Lord, send Thy peace, so that all peoples, of whatever book, come to
know Thee and Thy Fullness,
tanzen
------------------------------
From: "Erik S. Ohlander" <ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:14:11
Subject: RE: Syriac sources
Nur-
Thank you so much! I can read _academic_ French (o.k.; not great); but wish
to digest the materials in English first. Maybe I'll have you point me in
that direction later. Again, thank you so much for your kind help.
wa as salaam!
Erik S. Ohlander
University of Minnesota
ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu
>If you read French, there is a lot more i can suggest.
>
>If you get that much down, you are well on your way!!
>
>Blessing to you,
>
>Nur
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Erik S. Ohlander" <ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:19:50
Subject: Re: academia or Heart-Mind and oether Dualisms (somewhat long)
Simon-
This is so true; yesterday I was talking to my father and he said: "ya know
Erik it's good that you study so much, but you should really get down to
the weight room, ride your bike, and walk more. Good grades, etc., don't
mean much when you don't have balance in your life."
Just thought that this was interesting;
Erik S. Ohlander
University of Minnesota
ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu
*...But I believe if one embarks upon a path, a search for the Divine,
whatever the discipline, balance is the
key factor, balance of heart, mind, body and soul. In a way you've
already answered your own question, that is if the academic is a
practitioner or devoted to some contemplative path the problem of
imbalance diminishes.
------------------------------
From: maarof <maarof@pc.jaring.my>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:47:04 +0800
Subject: Re: Paraclete #1 (short side bar)
On Thu, 05 Sep 1996, frank gaude <frank@sierra.net> wrote:
>Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim
>
>maarof wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 04 Sep 1996, Tanzen wrote:
>> [...]
>> >
>> >If we take the near-koan "All is true, but nothing is real" we have so
>> >much to think about that the brain may simply turn-off, that it might be
>> >better to go back to meditation or other practices, let spirit overwhelm
>> >us. Think: where is the center of infinity, where are the edges?
>
>> Where is the center of infinity?
>> answer: Life
>
>Okay, okay! <grin> What is life?
>
>> Where are the edges?
>> answer: Death
>
>You know the question: What is death?
>
>After these two, let's try: What is spirit, mind, and matter?
>
>al-Hamdu'lillah
>
>Peace and love, dear brother,
>
>tanzen
>
Assalamualaikum,
I like to laugh, but I just watch CNN on Christopher talking
about the Kurds... so I'm puzzled. Since when
Kurdistan becomes the 51st or is it 52nd state of USA?
Jokes asides.
okay, what is life: a living heart, a heart that is not veiled to
the presence of the Ever Living. This is life
at the center of Infinite Life.
what is death: a dead heart. al-Quran refer this heart hard as a stone.
This is Death at the edges of Infinite Life.
Spirit, mind, matter: I wish I can BS as good as Christoper when talking
in /grave/ voice-tone about the safety of the Kurds.
salam and be well :)
- -maarof
------------------------------
End of tariqas-digest V1 #128
*****************************