From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Wed Sep 18 14:19:29 1996 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:40:52 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #127 tariqas-digest Thursday, 5 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 127 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rabia Kathleen Seidel <seidel@top.monad.net> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 21:02:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Information about Gabriel? Aurangseb Malik wrote: > > Asalamoaleikum, > > for some reason i feel/felt great attraction (or influence?) > (in meditations) by the archangel called Gabriel, and i do not know > anything about his attributes. > Waleikum salaam. Dear Aurangseb, This is what I have been able to find. Muhammad Asad, in a footnote to ash-Shu'ara (surah 26), 192-195, writes: "According to almost all the classical commentators, the expression 'ar-ruh al-amin' (literally, 'the faithful [or 'trustworty'] spirit) is a designation of Gabriel, the Angel of Revelation, who, by virtue of his purely spiritual, functional nature, is incapable of sinning and cannot, therefore, be other than utterly faithful to the trust reposed in him by God..." Sachiko Murata and William Chittick, in The Vision of Islam (Paragon 1994) write of Gabriel: "The scriptures that are given to prophets are brought by one specific angel to whom God has entrusted prophecy: Gabriel... Since God's message does not necessarily take the form of a book, it may take the form of a human being. This is one way we can understand the Koranic verses that describe Gabriel's relationship with Jesus. The Koran refers to Jesus, alone among all the prophets and messengers, as God's "word," so he is comparable to a scripture. And one of the terms that the Koran employs to refer to certain angels is "casters," because they "cast" or toss God's messages to human beings. Hence it seems natural that Gabriel, the angel who brough the Koran to Muhammad, should be the angel who acted as the intermediary for God's casting his word into Mary. It was he who announced to Mary that she would give birth to the Messiah: "We sent to her Our spirit (Gabriel), and he appeared to her in the image of a mortal without fault. (19:17) "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the messenger of God, and His word that He cast to Mary, and a spirit from Him (4:171)." >From Annemarie Schimmel's Deciphering the Signs of God (SUNY 1994): "Most prominent in the Koran is Gabriel, who is also called 'ar-ruh al-amin,' 'the faithful spirit' (26:193), and even 'ruh al-quds,' 'the holy spirit' (2:87, 5:110, 16:102). He lives by looking at God, and he is the messenger in charge of the prophets: as he taught Adam the alphabet and agriculture, he instructed Noah in how to build the ark, offered assistance to Abraham when he was flung into the blazing pyre, and taught David to weave coats-of-mail. But more importantly, he was the one who placed God's word into the Virgin Mary so that she could give birth to Jesus, the Word Incarnate, and likewise brought the revelation to Muhammad, the unstained vessel for the Word Inlibrate. Gabriel accompanied the Prophet on his heavenly journey, but had to stay back at the 'sidrad al-muntaha' 'like a nightingale that is separated from his rose,' as the Turkish poet Ghanizade sang in the seventeenth century. The idea that only the Prophet could transgress the limits of the created universe and enter the immediate Divine Presence induced thinkers and especially mystics to equate Gabriel with intellect -- for intellect can lead the seeker in the way towards God, unfailingly and dutifully, but is not allowed into the bridal chamber of Love." And Schimmel, in The Triumphal Sun (SUNY 1993), paraphrases Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi: "Man was created... from the first sip of Divine wine that fell into the dust, whereas Gabriel the Archangel was created from that sip which fell into heaven. "Gabriel's strength was not from the kitchen, it was from looking at the Creator of Existence..." Rabia Kathleen Seidel ------------------------------ From: maarof <maarof@pc.jaring.my> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:11:33 +0800 Subject: Re: Paraclete #1 (short side bar) On Wed, 04 Sep 1996, Tanzen wrote: [...] > >If we take the near-koan "All is true, but nothing is real" we have so >much to think about that the brain may simply turn-off, that it might be >better to go back to meditation or other practices, let spirit overwhelm >us. Think: where is the center of infinity, where are the edges? > >Love, harmony and beauty, > >tanzen Where is the center of infinity? answer: Life Where are the edges? answer: Death ------------------------------ From: Simon Bryquer <sbryquer@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 21:27:55 -0700 Subject: Re: More on the Paraclete and Academia Greetings--- Just want to make a correction the word in the sentence below should be PAGAN -- though PAGEANT works just as well in a different way. Also to Nur re:Academia I almost missed your post because it comes in a different format and must be reformatted to Netscape or Forte. It would require a longer reply - maybe - later in the week -- in regards to the West having been and still is anti-intellectual in matters of mysticism and mystic. Well first it isn't only the West, most tariqas and most of their sheikhs are emphatic about experience '..to taste is to know'. It is just that most scholarly investigations and in their attempts to be 'objective' work at not being involved and thus this is in direct contradiction to experience -- unless you want to substitute the scholarly research of the 'subject' for the actual experience. All is not lost though, there can be a balance and intergration of the scholarly and the mystical experience -- but it is the exception rather than the rule. Your mentor Mircea Eliade is one of them. But I'm sure you know the answer to what kind of intellectual pursuit mystics of all stripes are not in favor of -- the supposed pursuit that takes you away from experiencing the Divine. The accumulation of data does not guarantee the touch of the Divine -- just more data. Just think of Rumi's story of 'The Elephant in the Dark' -- that was aimed directly at scholars -- the Ulema and others. But I'm sure you already know this. That's all for now -- salaams to one and all Simon Simon Bryquer wrote: . . .Islam being viewed as intrusive in the West was the brunt of a collective scholarship of ignorance intend to politicize Muhammad(saws)and making Islam pageant rather that show the natural evolution of the revealed Tradition. ------------------------------ From: Saint Download <dances@cruzio.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:33:29 -0800 Subject: Re: RUMI When A Madman Smiles At You On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Saint Download <dances@cruzio.com> wrote: > > Let the stronger man give to the man whose need is greater; let him > gaze upon the lengthening path of life. For riches roll like the > wheels of a chariot, turning from one to another. > > > > Rig Veda (B.C. 1200-900?) There are others who can explain it better. I see the passage as refering to sacrifice as thats why I posted it. Maybe charity is just one side of the coin of Love.There is no Sacrifice when "There is no God but God" ins' Allah. Lengthining life seems to point out the possibility of growth of the moment...the one area of time open to us for expansion... I recieve a new qoute each day from Sun Angel Innovations | http://www.sun-angel.com/ | info@sun-angel.com Salaam Aleikum james hallam ------------------------------ From: Gale <gale@SineWave.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:50:47 -0700 Subject: Re: academia Greetings Simon, i look forward to your post. It has been a strange experience for me since i belong to two tariqas, = completely unrelated. In one, the pir is extremely learned, = intellectual one might say, as well as having a very deep spirituality = in communion with the Divine. Yet the majority of the mureeds in this = group are anti-intellectual and many live in heart-mind dualism. The = other pir is a shawl embroiderer of little education on the Indian = subcontinent and yet the majority of his mureeds are professors and = professionals and very well-learned persons who dive into mystical = literature with a heart's passion. Hmmm... i just find this to be a = very curious scenario. Blessings to all, Nur ------------------------------ From: Gale <gale@SineWave.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:23:31 -0700 Subject: Prayer Greetings Crescent Clinic and Surgery... since you didn't name yourself. Wonderful insight in your post on Jesus's prayers. I like it. The = Syrian Christian tradition has lots of material on prayer postures which = includes full prostration of the body in the fashion of the Tibetans. Also Maroof, the traditional prayer prostration of Tibetans is performed = three times, not two. The hands together in prayer posture lifted just = above the crown of the head (saying *I take refuge in the Dharma* = referring to purification of mind or thought) then moving the hands to = the throat (saying *I take refuge in the Buddha* referring to = purification of speech), and finally to the heart (saying *I take refuge = in the Sangha or community of fellowship referring to purification of = deed or action), then one prostrates oneself fully on the ground with = hands outstretched beyond the head in an act of surrender or submission = as a means of emptying oneself. That's the way i learned it in any case = when i lived and worked in a Tibetan monastery way back. Blessings, Nur ------------------------------ From: "Abbas B. Talib" <atalib@mail.asiandevbank.org> Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 10:38:37 +800 Subject: Re[2]: Paraclete #1 I agree with Lily's comment regarding repeated messages sent twice and sometimes three times. Is there no way of avoiding this. Abbas. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: re: Paraclete #1 Author: tariqas@facteur.std.com at INTERNET Date: 4/9/96 8:52 AM asalaam-u-aleikum I would like to repectfully request that we not repost what has already appeared in its entirety - my email box is getting overstuffed repeatedly by these huge posts that consist mostly of what has already been posted. Lily ------------------------------ From: Gale <gale@SineWave.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 20:44:40 -0700 Subject: Re: prayer Brother Maroof, The Christian monks (after the mid 4th century) in the region of Amid in = middle Syria (the same region Mohammed PBUH was suppose to have traveled = with his uncle) are recorded as performing prayers five times a day at = the same hours as the Islamic salat. But they faced east in typical = Syrian Christian fashion. (according to a manuscript by John of Ephesus = in Arthur Voobus, History of Asceticism in the Syrian Orient II, Corpus = Scriptorum Christianorum Orientalum, vol. 197, Louvain, 1960). According = to Voobus, this is the only region where he knows of prayers being = performed 5 times a day instead of 3 as elsewhere in Syria, Palestine, = and Egypt. The monks putting their knees on the ground in prayer was = called *burke*or *selawata* in Syriac, the the prostration that followed = was called *metuniia*. According to the Syrian father Philoxenos of = Mabbug (early 6th century), the prostrations were to be performed 40 = times. Blessings, Nur ------------------------------ From: "Erik S. Ohlander" <ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:45:52 Subject: Re: prayer Nur- As salamu 'alaykum Your knowledge of early Syrian Christianity is indeed very deep. Could you point me towards a textual starting point so that I may be able to start my own exploration on the topic; I feel an acute lack of grounding in the subject; I also might be able to obtain a research bibliography from one of my professors, but he's out of the country until October. Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide! your brother, Erik S. Ohlander University of Minnesota ohla0003@maroon.tc.umn.edu >The Christian monks (after the mid 4th century) in the region of Amid in = >middle Syria (the same region Mohammed PBUH was suppose to have traveled = >with his uncle) are recorded as performing prayers five times a day at = >the same hours as the Islamic salat. But they faced east in typical = >Syrian Christian fashion. (according to a manuscript by John of Ephesus = >in Arthur Voobus, History of Asceticism in the Syrian Orient II, Corpus = >Scriptorum Christianorum Orientalum, vol. 197, Louvain, 1960). According = >to Voobus, this is the only region where he knows of prayers being = >performed 5 times a day instead of 3 as elsewhere in Syria, Palestine, = >and Egypt. The monks putting their knees on the ground in prayer was = >called *burke*or *selawata* in Syriac, the the prostration that followed = >was called *metuniia*. According to the Syrian father Philoxenos of = >Mabbug (early 6th century), the prostrations were to be performed 40 = >times. > >Blessings, > >Nur > > > > > ------------------------------ From: padenski@juno.com Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 22:43:52 PST Subject: Re: Atheism/Existence of God >On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Joshi wrote: > >[snip] > 5. it had to spin on its own axis so as to allow us to sleep and >wake[ > i.e night and day]...by chance? > As'salam, Yes.....but then, how would one account for Alaska, or simular providences, where they have 6 months of daylight and 6 months of darkness? ;) Just thinking out loud... Blessings, Ruthie ------------------------------ From: Gale <gale@SineWave.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:33:13 -0700 Subject: Syriac sources Greetings Erik, These would be the sources i would recommend -- pretty much in this = order of priority: 1. Arthur Voobus, History of Asceticism in the Syrian Orient -- = especially the 3rd/last volume which brings Syrian spirituality into its = encounter with Islam. 2. A. Mingana, Syrian Mystical Treatises (Woodbrooke Studies, Volume 7 = which translates a lot of important Nestorian mystical texts) 3. Any of the works of Sebastian Brock, but especially his journal = articles (a lot in Sobornost/Eastern Churches Review) and his book The = Syrian Fathers on Prayer (Cisterian Press) 4. The poetry of Ephrem Syrus who is regarded as the father of Syrian = Christian mystical poetry. A lot of it was translated for Paulist = Press's Spiritual Classics series in paperback. 4. Since Isaac of Nineveh is a cornerstone mystic of the Nestorians i = would suggest you try to find the more recent translation of his Ascetic = Homilies published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Boston) instead of = the older Wensinck translation. 5. Patriarch Gregory Bar Hebraeus's Book of the Dove (i think it was = translated by P. Bedjan). This and Hebraeus's Ethnicon are the two most = important Syrian mystical texts of the medieval period and he was = primarily influenced by the Sufi al-Ghazzali's works. If you read French, there is a lot more i can suggest. If you get that much down, you are well on your way!! Blessing to you, Nur ------------------------------ From: yemimt@singnet.com.sg (Cresent Clinic & Surgery -Dr. M. Tahir) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 15:05:02 +0800 (SST) Subject: Re: Atonement Greetings Thank you David Barton for giving the (or should I say a) Christian view of the doctrine of Atonement : "the fact that Christ's death somehow wiped out our sins and reconciled us to God -- is central to Christian belief." You wrote "The sacrifice part of things is indeed vital; however, it is more in the vein of a father who throws himself on a grenade when a child, in spite of warnings, has pulled the pin and doesn't know what to do with it nor how dangerous it is." I have no quarrel with this statement as such. It is honourable for a someone to sacrifice himself for his son or even for a beloved friend. (Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends- John 15.3) A Sufi Shaikh says that the first stage in love is that you love everyone as you love yourself, the second stage is that you love everyone more than yourself and desire for them more than what you desire for yourself, the third stage is that you love everyone so much that you ask God to put yourself in Hell and let everyone else go to heaven. There is no limit as to the consequences of love.I am digressing a fair bit here but could not resist putting this in. Coming back to your statement, a father sacrifing for his son is not the same as the father punishing his son for someone else's misdeeds. I remember as a child, when I was in an Anglican missionary school, thinking why does Christ have to suffer for it. I sympathised with him when he is quoted as saying my soul is "extremely sorrowful even unto death". He prayed earnestly to God that if possible the cup be taken away from hin , that he did not have to undergo the suffering, but nevertheless he submitted to God's will. It is indeed praiseworthy to sacrifice when there is a need to, but I just do not see the necessity here. Tahir ------------------------------ From: maarof <maarof@pc.jaring.my> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:08:53 +0800 Subject: Re: prayer On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Gale <gale@SineWave.com> wrote: >Brother Maroof, > >The Christian monks (after the mid 4th century) in the region of Amid in middle Syria (the same region Mohammed PBUH was suppose to have traveled with his uncle) are recorded as performing prayers five times a day at the same hours as the Islamic salat. But they faced east in typical Syrian Christian fashion. [...] >Blessings, > >Nur > My undestanding is that Muhammad never claimed to bring a new religion, but only reaffirmed the foundation of Tauhid to its pristine form. It is highly possible and natural he met the Christians and the Jews when he led the trade caravans to Syria. "Natural" in sense that Muhammad himself professed the faith of Abraham. The only account of I have of this "faith of Abraham" is Muhammad spend nights and days in a cave Jabal-Nur. It is reported that his first wife, Khadija, also used to accompany him, praying (?) in the cave. It will be interesting if there's any account of Muhammad in the Christian community/monks of that period. Thanks ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@po.pacific.net.sg> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:20:50 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Prayer for World Peace As Salamu alaikum waRahmatullahi waBarakatuhu! The Americans are cruelly bombing Iraq although the sins of the latter are largely the work of Saddam Hussain himself a one-time stooge of USA and presently of Satan.The people , the children are innocent.Is this the work of a Christian nation ? Every day believers such as yourself are praying for peace.We Muslims pray for peace five times a day with the following prayer Allahumma antas Salam Wa minkas Salam Tabarakta Ya zaljali wal ikram O Allah Thou art Peace Peace comes from Thee Blessed are Thou O Lord of Majesty and Bounty Everyday Muslims go about wishing peace for everyone with the words As Salamu alaikum w.w.The more people realise that they are actually praying for peace ceaselessly the faster peace will come but it looks like war mongers and America's war lobby are praying for war actually for Armageddon the Last Great War. At 14:37 9/4/96 EDT, you wrote: >Infinite Spirit, bring Peace >and Good Will to all people. >Direct the pathway of >every Nation into unity, >happiness, and prosperity. >Remove the thought of >fear and greed >from the mind of man. >Let every thought of hate >be turned to love; >every thought of fear >be turned to faith; >every thought of doubt >be turned to certainty; >every thought of war >be turned to Peace. >Heal the wounds of the world >and bring Peace upon the face of the earth. >And so it is. > > -- given to a traveler at Taos Pueblo > ------------------------------ From: dlb@severn.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:30:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Atonement M. Tahir writes: Coming back to your statement, a father sacrifing for his son is not the same as the father punishing his son for someone else's misdeeds. I remember as a child, when I was in an Anglican missionary school, thinking why does Christ have to suffer for it. I sympathised with him when he is quoted as saying my soul is "extremely sorrowful even unto death". He prayed earnestly to God that if possible the cup be taken away from hin , that he did not have to undergo the suffering, but nevertheless he submitted to God's will. It is indeed praiseworthy to sacrifice when there is a need to, but I just do not see the necessity here. I apologies, my brother; I was not as clear as I should have been. What I was trying to say was that the necessity is not for "taking our punishment instead of us". Indeed, a farther sacrificing for his son is different than the father punishing his son for our misdeeds; I was attempting to say that the "punishment part" of this was the smaller part, to the point of insignificance. If forgiveness was all that was necessary, so that we would not be punished for all our sins, then all that would be necessary would be for Christ to forgive us. Recall that, in the Christian view, Christ *is* God; sins that he forgives are forgiven by God. Yes, Christ's death does wipe out our sins, but it does much more than that. If sin is death, then forgiving sins is defeating death, even overcoming death. Well and good, but only part of the problem if we go on sinning (as we do, every day, every hour, every *minute* we exist). To the Christian, the true meaning of the Atonement is not just that we are forgiven and therefore are able to "skin out" of our just punishment. No, the Atonement is a *transformation* of death into life. It allows us, in our sin, and knowing we will sin again, to nevertheless turn to God and live. At its core, the "necessity" for the Atonement is a mystery. For me, however, I have an intutive feeling for that necessity when I recall that Christ did not only overcome death, he *transformed* it into life. Because of His sacrifice for me, death (even the death of sin) is now a doorway through which I can pass unto God, the Beloved, the Radient, Light and Love, Center of my being and of all things, Ruler of the Universe. What incredible Glory! I, a thing of dirt and mud, irretrievably corrupted with sin, subject to the Commanding Self in all my actions and thoughts, may hope to pass through death and not fear, but come to God as a child to his mother's arms. It is *this* transformation that is the center of the Atonement, and the necessity for it. By dying Himself, and rising from that death into life, my own death has been transformed by His death into His life. What Mercy! What incredible Love! He not only forgives my sins, he *takes* my sins onto Himself that I might not just escape punishment, but hope to Live as He Lives. It places paradox at the center of existence, an impossible inevitability: impossible because of what I am, inevitable because of His Love, and what He Is. I can't talk of this any more. My soul sings, but my mouth (and fingers) fail. Dave Barton <*> dlb@wash.inmet.com )0( http://www.intermetrics.com/~dlb ------------------------------ From: Zainuddin Ismail <sham@po.pacific.net.sg> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:40:27 +0800 (SGT) Subject: Re: Paraclete #1 (short side bar) Salamu 'alaikum w.w.We are not trying to show the weakness of any group of people but we are trying to assert the truth through the media of the internet.For hundreds of years the media has been controlled particularly when we were colonised .Even today it is difficult to project what we believe to be the truth.Hopefully the Internet will show a way out of this arcana of " false witnesses" .I remember during the Salman Rushdie episode writing all over to tell the world that there is no death sentence in Islam for apostasy simpliciter or even for blasphemy.There are only civil consequences related to property or inheritance or marriage.The truth is clear from any detailed study of the Prophet s.a.w.Unfortunately the mass media suppressed this point of view and thus the broadmindedness of Islam was relegated.Eventually even the youngsters believed in the lie perpetrated by the mass media and by deviant groups masquerading under the name of Islam."If you kill a person unless it be through due process of law for murder or for uprising in the land then it is as if you have killed all of humanity but if you save one person it is as if you have saved the whole of humanity" No law can contradict this Quranic principle. Anyway another quotation from the Holy Bible about the coming of Muhammad again one of almost a hundred references "The burden upon Arabia .In the forests of Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companions of Dedanim.The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty , they prevented with their bread him that fled.For they fled from the swords from the drawn sword and from the bent bow , from the grievousness of war.For thus hath the Lord said unto me , within a year , according to the years of a hireling , and all the glory of Kedar shall fail: And the residue of the number of archers , the mighty men of the childen of Kedar , shall be diminished : for the Lord God of Israel hath spoken it " (Isaiah 21: 13:17) Rev.C.Forster locates the Kedar in Hedjaz where Mecca is located. See the Historical Geography of Arabia by Rev.C.Forster,pp 244-265. Forgive me if I have offended by overselling but I love Muhammad the most maligned person in history and yet the most Beautiful.As Song of Solomon says "Altogether lovely is Muhammadim" the Beloved of all prophets. At 10:08 9/4/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, everybody! > >Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: >> >> to all, >> in peace and love of al-Haqq (Allah, Reality, as Truth), >> I think we have the potential for distortion whenever we learn about one >> tradition through the eyes of another tradition which is trying to prove >> itself superior to that first tradition. > >Any kind of exclusivity, superiority leads to distortion of reality... >pushing us further from Reality. > >If we take the near-koan "All is true, but nothing is real" we have so >much to think about that the brain may simply turn-off, that it might be >better to go back to meditation or other practices, let spirit overwhelm >us. Think: where is the center of infinity, where are the edges? > >Love, harmony and beauty, > >tanzen > > ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #127 *****************************