From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 22 21:19:35 1996 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #78 tariqas-digest Monday, 22 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 078 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 08:45:53 -0700 Subject: Re: THE SOUL'S THREE FACES Bismillahirrahmanirrahim Assalamu'alaykum Hello, folks! Brother Michael wrote: [...] > -> the soul has God's Attribute of Al-Mushawwir (Sorry, dunno the English). My guru says al-Mushawwir is "the Fashioner"... if that helps. Yep, the fashioner of pillars... of minds... of souls... > Last but not least, please forgive my mispellings and poor vocabulary. :-\ > Lord, that all of us have a second language as perfected as yours! Thanks so much, Michael for really mixing up the pot to produce a stew that has much flavor... we have All and Everything! > Tanzen, more juice please...? What? you wish to be drowned in stew? Okay, let swing towards the other direction of thought and being: A Simple Trinity (Sat-Chit-Ananda)(Being-Consciousness-Bliss)(Nephesh-Ruach-Neshemah) (Father-Son-Holy_Ghost)(Brahma-Shiva-Vishnu) Here are three deceptively simple ways to approach a fuller, deeper understanding of the mystical core of our existence. Among the many hints, tips, tricks and techniques that Joe and Guin Miller (Theosophical Society, San Francisco) shared over their many years in working with the young people who looked to them: these three recurred in their discussions over and over again. Any of these three hints lead straight to the Goal if employed earnestly and boldly in everyday life. Do them in the 1, 2, 3 order given here and we deal with dynamite! 1. "Just BE." Whatever circumstances you find yourself in, whatever disappointment or adversity you encounter, just be yourself, who you really are from the depth inside. Then, you will discover that inspiration and strength come spontaneously. Their source is the very Oneness. That, the Oneness, No-Thing, is always waiting for us to open the inner doors and windows. 2. "Be still, be very still." Without resorting to exotic meditation techniques or contortions of the mind. Just drop the concepts that are running your life for one moment. Be still! Let the Awareness you ARE in depth FEEL Itself for the space of even a single breath. Feel the Limitlessness? Feel the Peace that abides INSIDE? 3. "Take a gentle, in-drawn breath into the heart and feel unselfish love flowing out." Try it when you've painted yourself into a sad little corner emotionally or mentally. Without taking courses in Pranayama or worrying about where or what the Kundalini is, just gently breathe into your heart cavity and let pure love radiate from you. Feel the expansiveness, the magnetism? Feel the rush of pure Energy? That's a big piece of the map home. These are not empty platitudes or little puzzles for novices to unravel: Each strikes directly to one of three Divine principles at the core of human existence, Sat-Chit-Ananda or Being-Consciousness-Bliss. To "Just BE!" is to relax directly into the Beingness (Sat) which is the unbreakable, ineffable, imperturbable core of all. "Being still" cultivates the Attitude of Simple Awareness (Chit). Taking that "gentle, in-drawn breath, radiating love" enlivens the Feeling Heart (Ananda). (Does this sound like esoteric Christianity? Yes!) "It can't be that simple," the mind insists. "What about me?" the ego cries. "There has to be more to it than that," the doubter says. "Can't build a big promotion around this, there's no way to get a degree or put up a shingle," ambition complains. Only a gambler would bet his life on three platitudes. Only a donkey smuggler would exhort others to try it also. Only a fool would continue on. "Ignore the opinions of others. Let the rumors of your foolishness spread far and wide. None of it matters in the least. Busy yourself with the burning of all of the furniture in the house of the mind. When the job is finished, dynamite the foundations and bulldoze the lot." --Richard Power, Theosophical Society "The way of love is not a subtle argument. The door there is devastation. Birds make great sky-circles of their freedom. How did they learn it? They fall, and falling, they're given wings." --Jelaluddin Rumi, mystic and poet If you realize that you are living from the Oneness, you are letting the absolute, the Reality, live through you. In other words, GOD SEND ME, I'M READY! Try it sometime. It'll scare the hell out of you. There is "a simple way" means to dispense with "rigorous disciplines" and realize the Self. How? By quieting the mind and opening the heart! Wassalamu'alaykum, tanzen ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:34:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Michael Roland and commentary Dear Michael, just one comment ... that is that sometimes we make everything a construction forgetting that it is also it is not just a house with rooms we can name but a home. The same words (eg the kabaalistic names of some of the faces of the soul) apply to the characteristics of the building but also to the making of the building. One might even prefer to use the metaphor of growing which so obviously includes both the cyclic and the progressive at the same time, the making and the nurturing at the same time, and,so to speak, the written and the unwritten in the same law . Some would say that it is better that we understand the unwritten first, other wise we get like many scientists and farmers of today who think that health is something you can simply make, construct. Like the farmer who values an apple by it's top ten or twenty or fifty list of characteristics from shelf-life to the amount of vitamin C. It is difficult to include the unwritten, it is confusing to include disorder in the order, it is unreasonalbe to include passion in reason, but without it the accuracy of our descriptions fade. but still, it seems to me that what you are saying over all is something of the "sufi" cosmology ... we are excited, especially in the 'West" to percieve a cosmology that is pretty thorough instead of the unstable and mercurial one we are used to and it is easy to get over excited and think that thinking is all that is needed .... especially (if i may be sexist) for us guy's, or at least the guy in us who loves to play with blocks and build houses, even if we don't understand what a home is ... well, i'm speaking of myself anyway .. love and much appreciation for your rambling and your work, Asha ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:40:08 -0700 Subject: Re: respect Maqam1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 96-07-22 08:11:53 EDT, you write: > > >O Muslims, do not regard me just because I put my forehead against the stone > >34 times a day. Why do you think my salaat is acceptable? Allah is Great, > >and who can submit to Him, and who can refrain from submitting? > Fiahmeen-Allah, My Brother [...] > As I always teach my mureeds you should have a love for all and if you > haven't reach there yet from with-in heart & mind your next quest is a short > rule to live by; If you don't like or love someone human or not you must > respect it. (You don't have to like or love a person but you must respect > them). You guys! respect and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Bob King Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Michael Roland and commentary On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > least the guy in us who loves to play with blocks and build houses, even if > we don't understand what a home is ... > well, i'm speaking of myself anyway .. Hi, there's what I think is an interesting counterpart to this home/house distinction. It's the distinction between place/space. I read a book on urban planning that talked about how a focus on "space planning" (i.e., figuring out all the really neat things we can do with a particular plot of land or what not) misses the part about every space being a place (i.e., a place where people or other critters live, interact, and so forth). I forgot the author's name, but it's an interesting little book called _Destruction by Design_. Talking about place or home changes the entire trajectory of a discussion otherwise framed by notions of house or space. . . Best Wishes. Bob King ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:14:28 -0700 Subject: Orientalist? Bob King wrote: > In various readings I have come across the term 'orientalist'. I've managed to glean some meaning from the content of the text but still have a rather fuzzy idea of what this word means. Often it seems to carry a negative conotation. Would anybody care to tell me what this word means? Thanks, - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:22:49 +0100 Subject: Plea for whatever! Amy says Lalla quit smoking yesterday, she uses the patch, she has cleaned every corner of the house, took me for more walks than usual, is pacing in circles, and is acting quite odd. Please say a small howl for Kaffea Lalla, she needs all the help she can get. Amy, Kaffea's dog. ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:58:27 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Tanzen's trinity Assalaamu Alaykum, I really try to keep the volume of mail down, but this time I have to respond to tanzen's simple trinity: be, be quiet, breathe gently. You are simply right, dear heart. Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 13:58:35 PST Subject: Re: Plea for whatever! >circles, and is acting quite odd. Please say a small howl for Kaffea >Lalla, >she needs all the help she can get. >Amy, Kaffea's dog. no small howls from this coyote! My song to you will not quit.... hear it... forever echoing through the canyons! She HAS all the help she can get! ; ) Hang in there!!! < love you, sis! woodsong ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:05:01 PST Subject: many thanks! "Just as there is no conflict in reality between the elemental forces of the earth and the whispering of the solar wind, just as there is no conflict between ocean and shore, between moonlight, sunlight, noontide or night, neither is there conflict between monotheism of the European traditions and the pantheism of earth peoples the world over. Let the distortions and abuses of both traditions fall away. "In this new world of light, see God in all things. Understand that to honor any aspect of God is to honor God. Let reverence be not reserved solely for an image in your cathedral -- or consciousness. Extend it to every sparrow, every child, every flower. Give it to every pebble on the beach. "Honor the spirit of God, not in the abstract, but in your sisters, in your brothers, and in your own heart. Give freely of your reverence. Give it to the deer of the forest, to the eagle who winds her way through the mountain passes, to the beaver who loves every moment in his life. This is how you honor God, by honoring all created things. Give thanks to these many beings who have made this age so much brighter for you. Give them your love. See them in every shaft of moonlight and in every forest glade. "When you know the Christ whose body all the earth reveals, when God's light lives within you, when your individuality has humbly offered all that it is to service of your universality and you know yourself as one with the great Being whose representative on earth you are, then you will see a pantheon of deities indeed! Each of them singing to you of the joy, the wonder, the beauty and blessed glory of the One." /Return of the Bird Tribes/, Ken Carey ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Orientalists: Scholars like Citizen Kane On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > Bob King wrote: > > > In various readings I have come across the term 'orientalist'. > Would anybody care to tell me what this word means? In my interpretation, the term suggests a scholar from the West who appreciates Islam (as the term originated in Edward Said's critique of Islamicists) with a patronizing and condescending attitude. Orientalists believe that their interpretations salvage the mysterious by reinterpretting it into "better" categories and interpretive frameworks. It's a lot like the way the movie-character Citizen Kane treats his wife. He gives her everything money can buy, but on his terms, as a control, and with no respect. Even Massignon, whose love for Islam I want to appreciate, insists on Catholicizing his reading of Hallaj beyond the license of integrity to the tradition. The Dean of Orientalists, Bernard Lewis, in 1989, wrote a cover piece for the _Atlantic Monthly- ("The Rage of Islam" in which he denigratedd and objectified Islam by never once in over a handful of pages referring to any specific Muslims as individual thinking agents or a community of people in a dialogue of ideas or drama of events. Lewis scoped out his target only under the abstract categorical frame of "Islam" and "Muslim." No people, no community, only a dark abstract spectre. Such is Orientalism, though there should be more to say. Wa salaam, Talat ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:53:28 +0800 Subject: re: respect >Assalaamu Alaykum ya Mu'minuun! >O Muslims, do not regard me just because I put my forehead against the stone >34 times a day. Why do you think my salaat is acceptable? Allah is Great, >and who can submit to Him, and who can refrain from submitting? Do you >respect the bee for laying his forehead in the honeysuckle? Yet I taste >something sweeter than that. If I did a thousand rakats a night, I would >soon be fat with such meals! > I too eat rice, but is it enough? I will stop being a pig or a dog, >and become a goat. Slit my throat and write La ilaaha illallaah in the dust >with my blood. Wash me for burial. Cut me up, savory and well-cooked on your >rice. Then you will see what the flesh tastes like that is made of that >nectar, day in and day out, sucked up from the stones of Kerbela. > Ali Haydar > > Walaikumsalam my brother Eat my brother's flesh? 1,001 rakaats? Surely not, o slave of Allah. How can I? salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Kathleen Seidel Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:07:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Orientalist? Michael J. Moore wrote: > Would anybody care to tell me what this word means? "Anyone who teaches, writes about, or researches the Orient -- and this applies whether the person is an anthropologist, sociologist, historian, or philologist -- either in its specific or its general aspects, is an Orientalist, and what he or she does is Orientalism... Orientalism is a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between "the Orient" and (most of the time) "the Occident." Thus a very large mass of writers... have accepted the basic distinction between East and West as the starting point for elaborate theories, epics, novels, social descriptions, and political accounts concerning the Orient, its people, customs, "mind," destiny, and so on... "Taking the late eighteenth century as a very roughly defined starting point Orientalism can be discussed and analyzed as the corporate institution for dealing with the Orient -- dealing with it by making statements about it, authorizing views of it, describing it, by teaching it, settling it, ruling over it; in short, Orientalism as a Western style for dominating, restructuring, and having authority over the Orient." "Orientalism, then, is knowledge of the Orient that places things Oriental in class, court, prison or manual for scrutiny, study, judgment, discipline, or governing." Edward Said, Orientalism, Random House, 1978, pp. 2-3, 41 "(Orientalists) have a certain representation or idea of "the Orient" defined as being other than the "Occident," mysterious, unchanging and ultimately inferior." Albert Hourani, New York Review of Books (quoted on back cover of Vintage edition of Orientalism) Ashk olsun -- Let it become love Kathleen Seidel ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:13:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Orientalists: Scholars like Citizen Kane Hugh Talat Halman wrote: > > In my interpretation, the term suggests a scholar from the West > who appreciates Islam (as the term originated in Edward Said's critique > of Islamicists) with a patronizing and condescending attitude. > Orientalists believe that their interpretations salvage the mysterious by > reinterpretting it into "better" categories and interpretive frameworks. > It's a lot like the way the movie-character Citizen Kane treats his wife. > He gives her everything money can buy, but on his terms, as a control, > and with no respect. Even Massignon, whose love for Islam I want to > appreciate, insists on Catholicizing his reading of Hallaj beyond the > license of integrity to the tradition. The Dean of Orientalists, Bernard > Lewis, in 1989, wrote a cover piece for the _Atlantic Monthly- ("The Rage > of Islam" in which he denigratedd and objectified Islam by never once in > over a handful of pages referring to any specific Muslims as > individual thinking agents or a community of people in a dialogue of > ideas or drama of events. Lewis scoped out his target only under the > abstract categorical frame of "Islam" and "Muslim." No people, > no community, only a dark abstract spectre. Such is Orientalism, though > there should be more to say. > > Wa salaam, > Talat Thanks. I had it all wrong. I was thinking that the orientalist were those who tried to formulate mystical interpretations of Islamic writings that had previously been interpreted from a literalist/legalist perspective. Clearly, from what you have said, this is wrong. It really irritates me when I hear about the injustice that is done under the guise of the disinterested dessemination of information. It seems to me that this amounts to persecution and we know that the Quran says about that. - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:26:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Orientalists: Scholars like Citizen Kane Hugh Talat Halman wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > > In various readings I have come across the term 'orientalist'. > > Would anybody care to tell me what this word means? > > In my interpretation, the term suggests a scholar from the West > who appreciates Islam (as the term originated in Edward Said's critique > of Islamicists) with a patronizing and condescending attitude. [...] > Lewis scoped out his target only under the > abstract categorical frame of "Islam" and "Muslim." No people, > no community, only a dark abstract spectre. Such is Orientalism, though > there should be more to say. Talat and Michael, yo! Orientalists are those with scholarly (not experiential) knowledge of the East and Mid-East. The term started in the early 1800s for those of the Bristish (and European) university schools, and the English press corp, who studied and wrote about many aspects of India, Persia, Arabia, and Africa life without "becoming" what these various peoples are. Their understanding was surface and they interpreted many things from a purely Occidental, Christian perspective, thus, "missing the mark" somewhat sometimes. A classic example of such is Sir Edward Fitzgerald and his "translation" of Omar Khayaam's "Rubaiyyat". Though knowing some Persian, the abstract sufi terms used by Omar lead Edward to wade through a pool of molasses. These times have not passed... Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:41:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Orientalist? Kathleen Seidel wrote: > > Michael J. Moore wrote: > > > Would anybody care to tell me what this word means? > > "Anyone who teaches, writes about, or researches the Orient -- and this > applies whether the person is an anthropologist, sociologist, historian, - --snip-- Great quotations! Thanks! - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:49:49 +0100 Subject: Letters in the Sand Ah, the sands were swirling around Jesus finger. Each Letter written as an imprint of something real, alive, the best. They wanted to stone the woman, to hand the man, to electrocute, to whip and lash, and put down under... But God put gold into the Rock on a mountain top and a king was crucified because people liked to shout, and crowds will say anything? Ah, the sands were swirling around One finger... It wrote, I love you....forever... Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: "Erik S. Ohlander" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 17:04:20 Subject: RE: Orientalist? Perhaps the best way is to check our Edward Said's seminal book "Orientalism". Erik. >Bob King wrote: >> >In various readings I have come across the term 'orientalist'. >I've managed to glean some meaning from the content of the text >but still have a rather fuzzy idea of what this word means. >Often it seems to carry a negative conotation. >Would anybody care to tell me what this word means? > >Thanks, >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 > > ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:32:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Orientalist? Erik S. Ohlander wrote: > > Perhaps the best way is to check our Edward Said's seminal book > "Orientalism". > Of course, these days the word 'seminal' has gone out of vogue and and in deference to our new found feminism, has be replaced by 'germinal'. Perhaps future generations will be able to find a gender-neutral term. ;-) How about 'procreative'? Blessed Bees! - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:50:19 -0400 Subject: Re: le bon sauvage Dear Ali Haydar, For precisely the reasons that you articulate, it would be best if you stay with us and give us your slant on things. My experience has been that those in this list who hold strong convictions are unique, inasmuch as the tendency to be open minded is present and some of us are willing to change our minds from time to time. These circumstances probably explain the large volume of messages flying through the ether. Warm regards, stick around, brother, and inform us, At 09:08 AM 7/17/96 +0300, you wrote: > >Assalaamu Alaykum! > There is an ongoing discussion in which I have not participated so >far regarding the guru-like contribution or lack of it on the part of Native >Americans or their anscestors as far back as the Mammoth. Insofar as I know, >I am the only participant in this forum who is actually on the tribal rolls >of a Native American community. It is also likely that, considering that I >have written in a number of academic publications post-doctoral research in >the area of Native American spirituality, I am among the more qualified in >this forum to state an opinion on this matter. The subject is being >discussed in more sophisticated terms in other forums, to which I would >direct those interested either in the contemporary expression of >spiritualities attempting to draw from Native American spiritual culture, or >in the objective examination of such movements, or in the objective >examination of Native American culture. The fact that the subject is being >debated here with what appears in my point of view to be little or highly >generalized factual information, makes me feel uncomfortable. I am not >accusing anyone of racism, I am only saying that, given my ethnic >background, I feel uncomfortable with the debate. It does not relate to the >practice of Sufism, nor to the evaluation of Sufism, nor the the giving of >information historical and factual about Sufism. Am I out of place in asking >that the subject be dropped? Or should I drop out of the forum? > I apologize for the acid flavor that has crept into one or two of my >earlier responses. The said debate is the reason for it. > >Ali Haydar > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #78 ****************************