From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:53:01 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:45:43 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #69 tariqas-digest Tuesday, 16 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 069 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: al-Fatiha: paraphrase, translation, transliteration On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: > I don't understand - what is this a transliteration of? What was sent as re-sent below is a paraphrase of the Fatiha-- neither a transliteration of the Fatiha nor a translation of the Fatiha. The Fatiha, the opening prayer of the Qur'an which one prays within the Salat or ritual prayer may be the world's most memorized and recited single text throughout history. It's recitation is required in Salat and encouraged in other contexts. What you recieved is a portion of Neil Douglas-Klotz's paraphrase of the Sura al-Fatiha generously enriched by a dimension of comparative spirituality and comparative semitics by which Douglas-Klotz opens inner meanings. I recommend getting the whole piece as printed in Neil Douglas-Klotz's book _Desert Wisdom_. > I thought > transliteration meant representing the sounds of a language written in a > different alphabet. Is this in some way related to Sura Al Fatiha? > > Lily > On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > > Saadi Shakur Chisti (Neil Douglas-Klotz) transliteration: > > > > We affirm that > > the next thing that happens occurs only > > > > With the Divine Void calling our name before > > we rayed into existence. > > > > >From the Original Womb comes both grace and mercy. > > The first, a supreme unconditioned love: > > before any need arose, a vital power enveloped itself, > > creating warmth, heat, radiation from a center > > without regard to what was lost or gained, > > a natural gift of the Cosmic Self. > > This always continues. > > > > The second, a tender response to all cries, > > all unfulfilled potential: > > the primordial pull of cosmic kinship bears > > acts of compassion, responding to all needs > > as though heard for the first time-- > > the breath of love in response to a sighing universe, > > the quality of mercy. > > > > We begin > > by means of the Entire Unfolding Cosmos > > from whose Womb is born the Sun and Moon of Love. > > ---------------- > > > > The whole of al-Qur'an is contained right here in the prologue. God's Messenger who conveyed this revelation said this also. > > It's all we need in the latter part of the 20th century. In fact > > all we need is the first word: Bismillah! (Praise be to Allah!) The enthusiastic appreciation of the Fatiha will reward you with openings. Indeed Praise (al-Hamd/ al-Hamdu li-'llah) is one of its keys. In fact, the Bismallah (Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim) begins with the composite word Bismillah ("In the Name of Allah"). Understanding the logic of Neil Douglas-Klotz's choices can open us up to a sense of the fluidity, flexibility, and richness of Qur'anic Arabic. > > Peace and love along precious threads, > > > > tanzen ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:48:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Bismillah On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, arsalaan fay wrote: > I have recently been told that the Arabic terms Rahman and Rahim are less > related to compassion, mercy, or grace than to the relationship between > a mother and her unborn child. Can someome confirm and elaborate on this? Both understandings pertain. The root R-H-M in general applies to relationships, and kindness. The word RAHM (short "i" [kasra] between the h and m) means "womb." It seems that the grace of Rahman ar-Rahim is a grace based in the interconnected-ness of life and in the nurturing and sustaining of creatures within nature by Allah. Wa Salaam, Talat ------------------------------ From: Richard Rozsa Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:45:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Volume of mail: Compile of all messages on this thread. Dear friends and members of the tariqas e-list, May this find one and all well. As promised, here is the compile of messages sent so far regarding my first message. There was one technique given in reply to my request, paraphrased: Delete messages from people who one assumes one already knows (from past experience) what they are likely to be saying. The remaining suggestions were more directed towards the group at large. As previous threads on this alias have explored, one may assume that 'Adab' (or manners) is universal. While at the core, this may (or may not) be true, in expression, this is hardly the case. For example, in one circle, it might be considered good manners to light someone's cigarette. In another environment, it might be considered better to remind the person that smoking would offend the host or proprietor. There are many techniques for study and discussion, each with their own purposes that a qualified teacher may use. Without knowing the purpose of a technique and without the agreement of the practitioners, it's prescription would yield haphazard benefits at best. Regarding 'Tariqas', please correct me if I'm wrong when I say there is no stated guideline other than that said in the welcome letter from our host: "All members of the group are encouraged to feel comfortable to contribute to the discussion. Since most of us are involved in "paths of the heart" - and since we all have a heart - we all have something to say." It was in that light that I requested techniques that I could use. The compiled messages follow. Most of the copied sections from previous messages have been deleted. Messages directed to tariqas on this thread are also included. All the best, Richard Rozsa. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From Michael J. Moore on Monday, July 15, 1996 12:41 PM: People could write POETRY in the subject line when the content is POETRY. That way, you would not have to open it. (DELETE) The subject line could be codified say for example the first character: T= trivia/musings/Chatter A= anouncement P= Poetry E= Exegesis N= Nobody will be interested in this except me because I love to hear myself ramble on and on and on Q= Question non-rhetorical. I don't think that these are the best categories nor to I believe that people would actually comply, but it is the best that I could come up with. Good luck with trying to do something! - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From Brett W. McCoy Istvan Dragosani on Monday, July 15, 1996 8:29 AM: I've noticed this as well, with some dismay. I am finding I am deleting more than I am reading or replying, because I just don't have the time to read each post (especially since I am on a couple of other lists). >With all this said, I'd be very grateful for any techniques that have >been successfully used for dealing with this volume of mail. It has been >too much lately to give the proper attention to each message. If you'd >like to send mail directly to me, I'll compile any messages received >(not requested to be private) in a single mail and forward to the >tariqas list for any of the many people there that might be interested. One technique that was used on another list I read is to indicate in the subject a meta-subject, i.e., indicating whether the subject is a discussion, a submission of poetry, a story, or more personal items. We can come up with a standard set of abbreviations, which will make it a bit easier to go through the threads. For instance, you can have DISC: Reading, or POEM: Tuesday's Rumi, or ANNOUNCE: Sufi gathering in Buffalo, and so on. Some people might grumble, but it does help with a bit on the moderating end of things (especially in a group that is self-moderating). - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From Martin Schell on Monday, July 15, 1996 4:25 PM: - --I have sent quite a few myself in the past few days. I have also sent at least as many "personal messages" directly to the email address of individuals whom I wish to speak to. - --The only guideline that I can see is: "Ask yourself if the WHOLE list really needs to receive what you are sending." - --Despite my fervent and sometimes fevered participation, I, too, am feeling overloaded lately. I will select the tariqas-digest option. (Contact Habib if you need more information about that option.) Martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From Hudoyo Hupudio on Monday, July 15, 1996 6:05 PM Another alternative to reduce the overload of mail is for the server to adjust its procedure so that each time someone replies to a posting the address of the original writer will be automatically put in the "To" field instead of . If the responder wants his/her respond to be sent to the whole group, he/she can manually alter the "To" field. This is my experience with another discussion group. I do not know how popular this alternative is. Wassalam, Hudoyo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------- >From Woodsong on Monday, July 15, 1996 9:25 PM >Dear Ones! > >Sooorrrry!! I've done it again! ....and i apologize for not being more >conscious of others' needs! Thank you for letting me see this.... and please >forgive my insensitivity! I know that my over enthusiasm can be quite >annoying sometimes... okay, lots of times! :) ... I am a slow learner... >but i am learning... to listen. > >I am guilty of sloth! I reply, without thought of the effect... i will be >more careful to make personal replies... personal. :) > >Thank you! thank you! :) > >one thing... >about listening... i am learning to listen, really listen to Earth Mother... >she teaches me humility... and patience, and love.... yes, She does. YES! >She is! (if i can only listen!!!! :) > > <> > > blessed be! > love, love, love.... you ALL! > > woodsong - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From NurLuna Farrunnissa on Tuesday, July 16, 1996 8:18 AM >As-salaam aleikum to all my tariqas beloveds! > >I would second (third? fourth?) the current consideration concerning the >volume of mail. Yesterday it took me an hour and a half to get through the >mail from the weekend. I too began, for the first time ever, deleting mail >without reading it based on who wrote it and my past experience of what they >might or might not be saying. I began considering whether or not I could >continue participating in tariqas. So I appreciate this discussion. It is a >timely one for me personally, and also a good reminder for me personally. I >have been known to fall in love with my own words, "wit," and "wisdom." It's >not a pretty sight. > >When I first began to sojourn into the wonderful world of the Net, I learned >about Netiquette. One of the "rules" is that "Me, too!" messages are >inappropriate for posting to the entire list, because of space and time >considerations. These should be sent instead to the writer of the message >being responded to. This keeps the "signal-to-noise ratio," as they call it, >of the list itself at a much more pleasant level. A relatively minor >annoyance for a list such as tariqas, it becomes a *serious* problem in some >of the larger usenet groups, where hundreds of one-line messages saying >essentially "you go, girl!" (or "guy") can make the list unreadable, charming >and sincere though they may be. > >I feel the following suggestion is a step in the right direction, and wonder >if it can be implemented? Habib? > >In a message dated 96-07-15 21:07:21 EDT, Hudoyo writes: > >> Another alternative to reduce the overload of mail is for >> the server to adjust its procedure so that each time >> someone replies to a posting the address of the >> original writer will be automatically put in the >> "To" field instead of [tariqas' address]. > >I appreciate and delight in the music of tariqas voices, sometimes >harmonious, sometimes wonderfully dissonant. And I would offer the >observation that one exquisitely played chord often lingers in the heart and >mind longer and stronger than an entire symphony. > >your sister, Farrunnissa - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From Michael J. Moore on Tuesday, July 16, 1996 9:25 AM: >NurLuna@aol.com wrote: > >> I would second (third? fourth?) the current consideration concerning the >> volume of mail. >-snip- >> I learned >> about Netiquette. One of the "rules" is that "Me, too!" messages are >> inappropriate for posting to the entire list, ------ snip - > >Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. I guess I'm out of control. ;-) > >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >------------------- >From Kaffea Lalla on Tuesday, July 16, 1996 2:52 AM: >The reminder was enough for me to examine myself, and sit back and not write >so much. Net-etiquete is something I'm just learning. When I first got on, >there was a lot I didn't know. I didn't even realize that you could send >individually, and that sounds dumb, but I was pretty lost. And I though if I >just hit the reply button it would go to the person that sent the letter, >and then found out if they had a cc adress on, it went to everyone. I didn't >know how to save nicknames either, and so through trial and error. I learned >by the messes I got in. New people do need some help, we all didn't have >computer basics in school, e-mail training, or instructions. Thankyou for >the reminder. >Kaffea Lalla. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------- >Original message: >From: Richard Rozsa >Sent: Monday, July 15, 1996 11:33 AM >To: 'tariqas@world.std.com' >Subject: Volume of mail > >Dear friends and members of the tariqas e-list, > >May this find one and all well. > >Of late, there has been a huge volume of mail on this list. Since >Friday, I've received more than 150 messages and this has been the >normal amount of late. Some have sent more than 20 messages in just >three days. To be clear, I'm not asking people to stop sending mail. As >far as this person is concerned, the responsibility for action resides >with each individual. We each act continuously, knowing our motivation >or not. While one suspects that being "compelled" by one's Lord to >action is a rare occasion, to presume the knowledge of the workings of >the Absolute would be bad form. It is also not my wish to request an >atmosphere of "biting one's tongue." There have been several threads >that while they have at first seemed personal (and therefore, none of my >business since not directed to me personally), through work at >extracting the substance in a message, inner biases and understandings >have come to light. > >With all this said, I'd be very grateful for any techniques that have >been successfully used for dealing with this volume of mail. It has been >too much lately to give the proper attention to each message. If you'd >like to send mail directly to me, I'll compile any messages received >(not requested to be private) in a single mail and forward to the >tariqas list for any of the many people there that might be interested. > >All the best, > >Richard Rozsa > ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 14:04:31 -0700 Subject: Re: al-Fatiha: paraphrase, translation, transliteration > fact, the Bismallah (Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim) begins with the composite > word Bismillah ("In the Name of Allah"). I thought a better translation might be 'By way of Allah' or "Via Allah". I don't see where 'name of' comes out of Bismi. Please correct me if I am wrong here. Cheers - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:17:29 -0400 Subject: "name" in bismallah [was Re: al-Fatiha: paraphrase, translation, transliteration In a message dated 96-07-16 17:04:06 EDT, you write: > >> fact, the Bismallah (Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim) begins with the >composite >> word Bismillah ("In the Name of Allah"). > >I thought a better translation might be 'By way of Allah' or "Via Allah". >I don't see where 'name of' comes out of Bismi. Please correct me if >I am wrong here. >Cheers not exactly an Arabic specialist, but there *is* "name" in this phrase bismallah; broken into parts: b- = in sm = name Allah = Allah these latter two are in what could be called a Noun-Noun construction (two nouns one after the other in a semantic relation), so that - -sm'allah = name of Allah. hope that helps, Jinavamsa ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bismillah: name "in" truth On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > I thought a better translation might be 'By way of Allah' or "Via Allah". > I don't see where 'name of' comes out of Bismi. Please correct me if > I am wrong here. I enjoy translations that amplify the rather weak word "in" with someting more powerful such as what you suggest. I consider these translations faithful to the intent of the bismillah as a performative sacralizing action. But "b" is translated from Arabic typically as "in" Locally a masjid here, uses "With the help of Allah...." It holds together like this: "B" = "in" "ISM" = "name" Wa salaam, Talat ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 18:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Command to Compile of all messages on this thread. Thanks Richard, What commands do you use to compile so many messages into one. Since I only now how to integrate my response into another message, I -- and maybe others -- could benefit (selves and others) by using this knowledge if you would share it. Thanks, Talat ------------------------------ From: Jawad Qureshi Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:13:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Bismillah: name "in" truth Bismillah, wa salati wa salam 'ala rasoolillah . . . Salamz all, Regarding the noble phrase: Bismillah al-Rahman al-Raheem, there was something that I learned when I sat at the feet of Shaykh Abdur Rahman, who studied under Shaykh Abu Mustafa. He was telling us that the phrase Bismillah is NOT a complete phrase at all. This totally blew me away at first. You say this phrase every day all the time and then you hear something like this, and you wonder what it means. He was telling us that the phrase bismillah is only complete when the word Itiba (I begin) is placed in front: I begin with the name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful. He further told us that the meaning of the phrase becomes easier to understand: We begin with the name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful . . . To proceed. He told us that it is standard in Arabic to say it, and that it's understood, but since most Arabs today do NOT speak the classical Arabic, they are totally confused by this. I remember that one guy was saying that it means to bring Allah within you, and some other unitive talk. I don't know if that really holds true when looked at in this light. And Allah knows best! Wa salam, Jawad. ____________________ "The Enduring One! You are the Enduring One!" The most helpless slave of al-Rahman al-Ghufoor al-Wudood: Jawad Anwar ibn Muhammad Anwar al-Qureshi ------------------------------ From: Richard Rozsa Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:33:13 -0700 Subject: RE: Command to Compile of all messages on this thread. Dear Talat and Tariqas members, To compile the list of messages previously sent, I started by writing a normal letter (the section at the top). To add each message to the end, I opened each, copied the body to the clipboard (with Windows: Select all the text with mouse, Edit menu + Copy), switched back to the letter-to-be-sent and pasted to the end. The "From So-and-so on date:" at the beginning of each message was just typed in. All the best, Richard. >---------- >From: Hugh Talat Halman[SMTP:hthashq1@acpub.duke.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 1996 3:02 PM >To: Richard Rozsa >Cc: 'tariqas@world.std.com' >Subject: Command to Compile of all messages on this thread. > >Thanks Richard, > > What commands do you use to compile so many messages into one. >Since I only now how to integrate my response into another message, I -- >and maybe others -- could benefit (selves and others) by using this >knowledge if you would share it. > > Thanks, > Talat > ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:01:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Bismillah: name "in" truth Firstly, Thanks; to those who corrected my flawed understanding of Bismillah Jawad Qureshi wrote: He was telling us that the phrase bismillah is only complete when > the word Itiba (I begin) is placed in front: I begin with the name of > Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful. "In the name of the King, I command you to stop." What does this mean? It means that the command carries the authority of the King. If I just say: "In the name of the King" then isn't it implied that everything that follows carries his authority? Now if we say: "I say/begin, In the name of the King - Halt!" it seems to me we are pointing ( or drawing attention) to "I" or to the messenger and as a result detracting from the real intent which is to invoke the authority of the King. IMHO - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: Command to Compile of all messages on this thread. asalaam-u-aleikum I am here at home with archaic software, so what I do is export the messages to files, then begin another post and get the files back. In pc pine this is done using ^R in the body of the message. Lily On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Richard Rozsa wrote: > Dear Talat and Tariqas members, > > To compile the list of messages previously sent, I started by writing a > normal letter (the section at the top). To add each message to the end, > I opened each, copied the body to the clipboard (with Windows: Select > all the text with mouse, Edit menu + Copy), switched back to the > letter-to-be-sent and pasted to the end. The "From So-and-so on date:" > at the beginning of each message was just typed in. > > All the best, > > Richard. > >---------- > >From: Hugh Talat Halman[SMTP:hthashq1@acpub.duke.edu] > >Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 1996 3:02 PM > >To: Richard Rozsa > >Cc: 'tariqas@world.std.com' > >Subject: Command to Compile of all messages on this thread. > > > >Thanks Richard, > > > > What commands do you use to compile so many messages into one. > >Since I only now how to integrate my response into another message, I -- > >and maybe others -- could benefit (selves and others) by using this > >knowledge if you would share it. > > > > Thanks, > > Talat > > > ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:38:29 +0100 Subject: Re: The Noble Savage ( was Verb: to be) >CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: >> Why should i fear that of which i am part? > >Because it will knock you down, bite your head, rip your >belly open and chew on your steamy guts and that will >really really hurt? ;) > >> <> >> >> blessed Be! >> >> love, >> woodsong > >Blessed Bees! >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 >-------Wow WowWowWow.....WoodSong, You got it...You are ALIVE in ALLAH HU The wind and the willow, I absolutely love you. Kaffea Lalla (I have been gone and missed the light show.) ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:51:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Command to Compile of all messages on this thread. Richard Rozsa wrote: > > Dear Talat and Tariqas members, > > To compile the list of messages previously sent, I started by writing a > normal letter (the section at the top). To add each message to the end, > I opened each, copied the body to the clipboard (with Windows: Select > all the text with mouse, Edit menu + Copy), switched back to the > letter-to-be-sent and pasted to the end. The "From So-and-so on date:" > at the beginning of each message was just typed in. > If you are using Netscape (and you should be) Open a new message. You will now have two windows open. Drag each of the messages ( from your message browsing window) to the Attachment: box/field ( in the mail composition window) . Note: if you will be sending this to people that have MIME compatible mail readers, then just SEND it now and forget the rest. Now send the message to yourself; and read the message. This effectively expands all the attachments into the text area so that other people do not have to deal with attachments. Lastly, REPLY to this new message. Overstrike the TO: box with tariqas@europe.std.com (or whatever) and SEND it. Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:25:17 +0100 Subject: Poetry I will preface my poetry as a Poem in the subject line, regardless of what it's subject, ideas, or comments are so those who do not wish to read it may delete it. Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:43:51 +0100 Subject: Rude or not Rude I have noticed that there are several people from different orders here, and many of us do not agree, which is as often is in most societies, even among and particular among religious folks. I do not claim to love everyone without distintion, although I would like to get to the place where I can, even when we do not agree and particularly then. But why must we belittle one another by saying this is poppycock, psychobabble, nonsense, and all such labels that do not demonstrate tolerance, maturity, and compassion. I realize I am immature, and have these shortcommings as well. But this could be a model of how people of different belief systems can communicate with each other with mutural respect and the love that Allah would have us demonstrate with patience, long suffering, meekness and gentleness. Sometimes we just have a little fun, and get carried away with joy also. Please lets not be so uptight. Now I write this fearful of being out of order, and getting bashed. But there is no one that I am singling out, just an observation from a newcommer who i know already has offended some here, without wanting to. Why take this resentment further by putting clues on the subject line so we get automatically singled out. Just delete any message you cannot stomach, and keep things simple...I'm going to run away now. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #69 ****************************