From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:51:26 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:52:25 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #64 tariqas-digest Monday, 15 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 064 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve H Rose Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: RE:attachment (fwd) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:25:44 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gmtn@mail.comet.net (Green Mountain School) Subject: Re: RE:attachment Message-ID: <19960714154532832.AAA175@[128.143.3.105]> >Gale and anyone else: > >Please refrain from sending attached files, because they do not >decode the same way for all systems. I cannot read the files >that Gale is sending. They don't seem very long, so why not >send them as regular messages? > >Thanks. > >martin > i would like to second that. not only can some systems not decode these 13k "attachments" {the size is unimportant really} but worse it freezes my mail program. please find, if at all possible, another way to send your message. thank you. A. N. Durkee Green Mountain ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the Shaykh (fwd) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:42:21 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gmtn@mail.comet.net (Green Mountain School) Subject: the Shaykh Message-Id: <19960714160201043.AAA176@[128.143.3.105]> as-salaamu 'alaykum, having read the more heterodox explanations of the criteria of a shaykh let me re-post a more traditional set of criteria which have been excepted for the most part over the past 1400 years. 1) The shaykh (or shaykah} is a Muslim adhering to the Qur'an and Sunnah outwardly and inwardly, in the large and the small and this is reflected in his (or her) family members, means of earning a living, activities public and private, surroundings, concentration and concern. 2) The Shaykh (or Shaykah) has received permisiion {idhn} from his or her Shaykh, preferably in writing, confirming him or her in their position and capacity. The once conferring this ijazah is a known link in the chain of transmission {silsilah} and has, in their turn, similarly been granted permision {idhn} and ijazah {similar to a degree} 3} The Shaykh (or Shaykah) possesses, and is capable of transmitting thru teaching and guidance, the perfected means of attaching one self to the Absolute and the efficacious means of concentrating on the Reality. Shaykh Ahmad az-Zarruq, Allah sanctify his secret, a great teaching shaykh of about five hundred years ago, says that the implicit conditions of the Shaykh are: 1) He must have a pure and lucid taste. 2) His outward knowledge must be sound. 3) His aspiration must be strong. 4)His outward state must be pleasing. 5) His insight must be piercing. He further says that anyone who manifests any of the following characteristics is not a shaykh. 1) Ignorance of the deen of Islam. 2) Disregard or scorn for the sanctity of Muslims. 3) Entering into that which is not his concern. 4) Following his own desires. 5) Lack of shame in regard to bad manners or bad character. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain ------------------------------ From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:19:29 -0700 Subject: Re: What is immortality? Hebrew for two. > >In a message dated 96-07-14 19:25:41 EDT, you write: > ><< Wonder what other languages are in this state, no verb "to be"? >> >Arabic, for one. > > - -- <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:21:17 +0100 Subject: Re: Work > Hi > I'm sending this for two reasons. My son, Alex Steffen, is looking >for soemone to do some WWW advertising. His e-mail is >asteffen@u.washington.edu. I think that's up your alley isn't it. Contact >him, I told him you might. > I'm leaving the Tariqas. I'm swamped and can't keep up with it. >Thanks and let's keep in touch. > > Habib N. > >----------Goodby dear friend, and hope all goes well for you. Love K.Lalla > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:26:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Abrogating and abogated verses Hello, everybody! Lilyan Kay wrote: > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > I don't understand - what is this a transliteration of? I thought > transliteration meant representing the sounds of a language written in a > different alphabet. You are correct... I likely should describe such work as an interpretation. > Is this in some way related to Sura Al Fatiha? It is Al-Fatiha! but seen through the eye of a modern mystic. Just think, Lilyan, there was a time "before we rayed into existence... [then] creating warmth... without regard to what was lost or gained." The thought puzzles, amazes. Peace, dear one - tanzen > On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > > > > > Saadi Shakur Chisti (Neil Douglas-Klotz) transliteration: > > > > We affirm that > > the next thing that happens occurs only > > > > With the Divine Void calling our name before > > we rayed into existence. > > > > From the Original Womb comes both grace and mercy. > > The first, a supreme unconditioned love: > > before any need arose, a vital power enveloped itself, > > creating warmth, heat, radiation from a center > > without regard to what was lost or gained, > > a natural gift of the Cosmic Self. > > This always continues. > > > > The second, a tender response to all cries, > > all unfulfilled potential: > > the primordial pull of cosmic kinship bears > > acts of compassion, responding to all needs > > as though heard for the first time-- > > the breath of love in response to a sighing universe, > > the quality of mercy. > > > > We begin > > by means of the Entire Unfolding Cosmos > > from whose Womb is born the Sun and Moon of Love. > > ---------------- > > > > The whole of al-Qur'an is contained right here in the prologue. > > It's all we need in the latter part of the 20th century. In fact > > all we need is the first word: Bismillah! (Praise be to Allah!) > > > > Peace and love along precious threads, > > > > tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:31:33 -0700 Subject: RUMI 154 COME LET'S SPEAK of our souls let's even hide from our ears and eyes like a rose garden always keep a smile like imagination talk without a sound like the spirit reigning the world telling the secrets uttering no word let's get away from all the clever humans who put words in our mouth let's only say what our hearts desire even our hands and feet sense every inner move let's keep silence but make our hearts move the mystery of destiny knows the life of speck after speck of dust let's tell our story as a particle of dust ghazal number 1540 RUMI, "Fountain of Fire: A Celebration of Life and Love", translated from the original Persian (Diwan-i Shams-i Tabrizi, the Furuzanfar's 10th Persian edition) by Nader Khalili. Burning Gate Press, 18401 Burbank Blvd., Suite 123, Tarzana, CA 91356, 1994 (Nader Khalili, internationally renowned architect, artist, author and teacher, is the founder of California Institute of Earth Art and Architecture. He lives in Hesperia, California.) tanzen ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:28:32 +0700 Subject: Death of Innocents >Hudoyo Hupudio wrote: >My own feelings, much coming from intuition, indicate that each child prays >to be born into a particular situation, to a particular set of parents, and >each has a unique past, a unique set of experiences, and a unique set of >adventures to live through: permiting God to know self, Self, through us. - --This reminds me of people asking "How can God let innocent children die?" - --I tend to think nowadays that it is not the fault/karma of the innocent children (which you might believe if you say they "chose" their situation) but the karma of the society. If the society is full of ignorance about the material world and how to apply spirituality to improve life, then there will be more children dying of disease, car accidents, war, etc. - --It is neither the fault of God, nor the fault of the "innocent" child. - --Comments from brothers and sisters? martin ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Different paths (was Re: Sheikh/Shaikh) Assalamu alaikum. On Sun, 14 Jul 1996 Salikun@vnet.net wrote: [snip] > Muhsin adds: > > Right on, Right on! > > I'm a little confused about this whole conversation of "paths away from Allah." > Yet, maybe 'confused' is a good description of my general state lately. So > please forgive, no one take offense by my opinions. They are mine, and need > not be yours. They are like rantings and ravings of a lunatic. > > I know The Books all metion these wide roads away from Grace, but those > verses confuse me as well. Where is not-Allah? Where shall I turn and not > see only-Allah? Where is so far away that Allah's Grace and Mercy can not > reach? > > Some pray up, some pray down, some pray east, some pray west, some pray > outside, some pray inside: Who is correct, Who is wrong? (Huuuu.) I pray > toward Mecca, you pray toward a wooden statue of Garcia. This implies my > prayers are better than yours? Externals!!! Off the path, on the path, > blah, blah, blah... Well here is my blah, blah, blah thinking on the topic :-) I'm not concerned with the question of whether, ultimately, God's Grace will encompass us all, or just some of us. That's up to God. I'm also not certain whether there is anything other than God or not. I tend to believe that everything is a part of God, but I don't "know" this either. What I am concerned with is much more mundane practical stuff like whether billions of people are hungry, or people are being tortured, or people are leading meaningless lives in the pursuit of material "wealth," or we are destroying the ecological balance of this beautiful planet. >From that perspective, there is a BIG difference between different paths - -- in the ends they are working towards and the effectiveness with which they meet those ends. Of course, even in these matters, Allah is working out things as necessary. We're here to learn some important lessons. But, it would be far better if we didn't choose to learn things quite such a hard way. Yours, Habib ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:24:00 Subject: Re: What is immortality? >Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:19:29 -0700 >From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Subject: Re: What is immortality? > >Hebrew for two. > >> >>In a message dated 96-07-14 19:25:41 EDT, you write: >> >><< Wonder what other languages are in this state, no verb "to be"? >> >>Arabic, for one. Makes sense, since both languages are supposed to be in the same language family (semitic). - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Thank you for the lovely Rumi poem (fwd) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:54:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Omid Safi To: frank gaude Cc: Tariqas Mail List , Winged Heart Mail List Subject: Thank you for the lovely Rumi poem In-Reply-To: <31E4FFC4.6B158122@sierra.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Tanzen: Greetings of peace and love...I wanted to thank you from the depth of my heart. The poem of Rumi was truly and honestly a God-sent. It brought such a ray of light and hope, not to mention perspective, to this tired heart of mine. I have recently undergone walk in light... a friend, omid On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 06:21:08 -0700 > From: frank gaude > To: Tariqas Mail List > Cc: Winged Heart Mail List > Subject: RUMI #965 > > MY DEAR FRIEND > never lose hope > when the beloved > sends you away > > if you're abandoned > if you're left hopeless > tomorrow for sure > you'll be called again > > if the door is shut > right in your face > keep waiting with patience > don't leave right away > > seeing your patience > your love will soon > summon you with grace > raise you like a champion > > and if all the roads > end up in dead ends > you'll be shown the secret paths > no one will comprehend > > the beloved i know > will give with no qualms > to a puny ant > the kingdom of Solomon > > my heart has journeyed > many times around the world > but has never found > and will never find > such a beloved again > > ah i better keep silence > i know this endless love > will surely arrive > for you and you and you > > RUMI, ghazal number 965, translated March 28, 1992, by Nader > Khalili. > > tanzen > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 07:04:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Eucharist Steve Phillips wrote: > > frank gaude wrote: > > > > Where is the "true" symphony located? > > > > It is spread out all over the universe... each has a part, all are > > necessary. Law of Three determined Quality of IT all. > > the flames of love consume my soul > and I surrender with happiness > I need only a glance from your eyes > and my joy cannot be contained. Aha, another Muslim among us... good! Okay, what's wrong with a good Christian Muslim being here in our ATOMsphere? Thanks, Steve, for being, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 07:14:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Al-Haqq Thomas McElwain wrote: > > Ya Maarof! Assalaamu-'Alaykum rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu! > Innallaha al-Haqq! Surely there is a great reward for the One who says only > Allah is al-Haqq. Yep, The Truth. > To drink from the fountain of al-kauthar. God is One and > there is none besides Him. Therefore there is only one who can say I. How do you say I AM THAT I AM in your language, in Arabic? > They killed Al-Hallaj because he said, "Ana al-Haqq." They > understood correctly that he meant that he himself was God by saying this. I killed Jesus and he didn't have to say it. They said it for him. > Ana al-Haqq, I am truth. They might have let him live. Why should they kill > a man for telling a lie? Had any of those who agreed to his death refrained > from lying when it was to their advantage? Not one. It was not to his > advantage when Al-Hallaj told that lie. Maybe the Devil made him do it. Is the Devil Shaitan in your book? Or can we find subtle differences, or does it make any difference? > Of course Al-Hallaj was not God. I am God. > Ali Haydar Kahunas of Polynesia call High Self (intuition): the gawd! Has a nice ring. I do know that I am the gawd, but so are you, Ya Ali. Yep, it seems, though it could be an illusion, that telling the truth is always to our advantage. Then we become The Truth? No? One word: thanks! tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 07:17:49 -0700 Subject: Re: What is immortality? Martin Schell wrote: > > Fellow Seekers: > > The file below is a forward from a Friend who received a copy of > my post "What is immortality?" I hope his answers serve the > spiritual development of One and All. -- Martin Spiritual development! I'm still looking for breakfast! Thanks, Martin, very interesting! tanzen > >Date: 14 Jul 96 17:29:04 EDT > >From: MICHEL DURANT <102506.647@CompuServe.COM> > >To: Martin Schell > >Subject: What is immortality? ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 21:39:51 +0700 Subject: directions >Dear Asha: > >This is the binary state I was speaking of: either toward(s) the one or >with one's back to the one. Of course there are an infinite numbers of >possibilities of alignment between these two limits within some >uncertainty principle. And we or specifically I am most sensitive to how >much out of alignment I am at each moment. > >LOve > > >Raqib >> Facing front? Backwards? What? Try walking sideways, Raqib. It might resolve some duality. martin ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:57:27 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: re: to be or not to be No word to be in Seneca either, even less so than in Hebrew and Arabic. What does it mean, anyway? Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:20:08 -0400 Subject: verbs to be [was Re: What is immortality? In a message dated 96-07-15 09:20:22 EDT, you write: >Subj: Re: What is immortality? >Date: 96-07-15 09:20:22 EDT >From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@europe.std.com >To: tariqas@europe.std.com > > > >Hebrew for two. > >> >>In a message dated 96-07-14 19:25:41 EDT, you write: >> >><< Wonder what other languages are in this state, no verb "to be"? >> >>Arabic, for one. >> This raises the possibility that other Semitic languages likewise have no verb "to be" ... might we add to this list of two such languages, then, such other languages as Aramaic, Syriac, Egyptian, Ethiopic, .... ? ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 08:47:45 -0700 Subject: Re: to be or not to be Thomas McElwain wrote: > > No word to be in Seneca either, even less so than in Hebrew and Arabic. > What does it mean, anyway? > Ali Haydar Well, as best as I can tell it means: All and Everything! The past flies away, coming months and years do not exist: Only the pinprick of this moment belongs to us. We decorate this speck of moment--time-- by calling it a flowing river or a stream. But often I find myself alone in a desert wilderness, strainig to catch the faint echo of unfamiliar sounds. --Mahmud Shabistarii, 13th century, "The Secret Rose Garden" (Saadi Shakur Chisti translation) We See What is, Work ever for the Best, Aware of the Worst, The while...LIVING each minute to its FULL... Delaying not, For yesterday has vanished and Tomorrow has yet dawned... THIS MOMENT is all of LIFE we ever truly possess. --------------------------------- He who exalts in being Alive for the sheer fun and joy of IT... FOR, his cup is full and runneth over! (1989) tanzen ------------------------------ From: NurLuna@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:10:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Shaikh As-salaam aleikum, brother Maarof! In a message dated 96-07-12 17:12:43 EDT, you write: > I am fascinated by the existence of several orders (schools?) > or societies, or in this public forum I think it would be > appropriate (I think) to call them "children" of Pir-O-Murshid > Hazrat Inayat Khan. > > So far I have identified three "children", i.e The Sufi Movement, > The Sufi Order of The West and SIRS (Sufi Islamic Ruhaniyyat > Society). There might be more (God knows best). One might also include Sufism Reoriented. Rabbia Martin was Hazrat Inayat Khan's chosen successor as Pir, and her choice of successor was Ivy Duce. Ivy became a disciple of Meher Baba, who told her that, through her, Sufism was now reoriented (hence the name). I don't know alot about the reorientation, except that it includes Meher Baba in the "lineage" of spiritual truth taught by that tradition. > I've come to understand that there are disagreements among > these groups. Disagreements are not necessarily bad, The > Prophet (pbuh) said "disagreements among my followers is > a rahma (blessing)". I have known great blessing in understanding, forgiving, and internally healing the "split" between the Sufi Order and the Ruhaniat. This is an ongoing work, with new lessons and new blessings when and where I least expect it! Ayva'llah. > My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves > as shadow of One or different shadows of One? I think that would depend on who you asked! I have heard Pir Hidayat, head of the Sufi Movement, say that there is only one lineage of Hzt. Khan, and we are *all* it. Indeed, the message of Hzt. Khan forms the basis of all the groups that look to him as spiritual ancestor. On top of that layer are the particular gifts, vision, and insight of Pir Vilayat, Pir Hidayat, Murshid S.A.M., and Meher Baba. So -- we are One, and we are different. Alhumdulillah that it is so. Farrunnissa ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:33:16 +0100 Subject: dust Do not put a name on my Eternal Friend It will only cause divisions And religions will make and break I want none of it my face is kissing the dust. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:43:03 -0700 Subject: Re: directions Martin Schell wrote: > > >Dear Asha: > > > >This is the binary state I was speaking of: either toward(s) the one or > >with one's back to the one. Of course there are an infinite numbers of > >possibilities of alignment between these two limits within some > >uncertainty principle. And we or specifically I am most sensitive to how > >much out of alignment I am at each moment. > > > >LOve > > > >Raqib > >> > Facing front? Backwards? What? > Try walking sideways, Raqib. > It might resolve some duality. > > martin You know a pantheist has trouble with any of these alignments towards the one (One?)... 'cause no matter the direction: there's The One. Come on, folks! let's find out quickly WHAT we are... it's in the enneagon of Michel Durant posted by Martin Schell... look to the Buddhists for the "simple", middle-ground, answer! I "is" gonna post seven short, simple pieces that cover the enneagram, that nine-pointed mystery, indirectly, "Ray of Creation"... ready? Oh, you want a direct understanding of 142857? Could your face take it? How would we know? tanzen ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:53:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Work Jacquie Weller wrote: > > > Hi > > I'm sending this for two reasons. My son, Alex Steffen, is looking > >for soemone to do some WWW advertising. His e-mail is > >asteffen@u.washington.edu. I think that's up your alley isn't it. Contact > >him, I told him you might. > > I'm leaving the Tariqas. I'm swamped and can't keep up with it. > >Thanks and let's keep in touch. > > > > Habib N. > > > >----------Goodby dear friend, and hope all goes well for you. Love K.Lalla > > Who's alley are you referring to? - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #64 ****************************