From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:51:12 1996 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:00:34 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #63 tariqas-digest Monday, 15 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 063 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Phillips Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:49:14 +0000 Subject: Eucharist frank gaude wrote: > > Where is the "true" symphony located? > > It is spread out all over the universe... each has a part, all are > necessary. Law of Three determined Quality of IT all. the flames of love consume my soul each night I turn my thoughts to you your arrows have run me through I am weak with life, my blood is spilled. what can I ask, o lord of life, you have placed your hand on me and my flesh melts at your fiery touch my presence evaporates like the dew. forgive me my hard-hearted ways, you waited at the meeting place but I refused to come, you shed a tear and I sped away without goodbyes. now my resistance fades like memory and I surrender with happiness I need only a glance from your eyes and my joy cannot be contained. your flames consume my spirit like a candle I am vanishing into the night my light is the service of my love for you your light is the joy of this eternal bliss. > > now, what's for breakfast? > > I'm getting ready for supper; what's this breakfast business? > > tanzen when we awake, we call the next meal "breakfast". steve ------------------------------ From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:19:30 -0700 Subject: Re: What is immortality? Dear Ones: A similar question from much chassidic discourses is related to the issue: Is there divine intervention at the individual person level or is it only at the collective humanity level -- hashgaha prati, versus hashgaha clalli. I think most mystical traditions would answer it at the level of the individual and it is the individual who is responsible to transform the group mind, emotions, etc. Raqib > >>Dear Ones: >> >>Not all questions require or deserve an answer. >> >>Sometimes it is most productive to search and refine the question so as >>to be most meaningful for an individual and/or group perspective. >> >>Raqib >> >><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> >> > >Well put, Raqib. Here's an attempt at refinement: > >What is immortality? The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1972 edition that >was part of the "furnishing" in a house that I rented in Yogyakarta >a couple years ago) surprised me with its entry on this topic. > >It describes two types: general immortality and specific immortality. > >These are derived from ancient Greek concepts that influenced gnostics >and thereby the Judaic-Christian-Muslim flow of theology. > >General immortality is the concept that everything which we experience >in our present life/incarnation is a reflection of our immortal self, >which exists as a kind of "continuum". > >Specific immortality is the concept that when your present life ends >and "you" die, "you" go somewhere. > >Who is the "you" and how does he/she relate to the continuum? > >martin > > > > > - -- <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 07:22:06 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Jafer as-Sadiq (AS) An alchemist!? Oh my God! ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 00:30:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Sheikh Dear Brother, What you say below is quite interesting. Do you believe that Shaitan exists anywhere except in our own minds? Do you believe it is easy for Shaitan to masquerade as Allah? Would a discerning, prayerful person have trouble distinguishing between a path to the devil and one to God? On the subject of Sufi groups, what pops into your mind from the fresh areas of your brain, must free, or did you mean it has been a long time since you gave this subject any thought and you are relying on some distant recollection of how you felt back then after slight reflection? Perhaps you will expain a little more about this thought process to help evaluate your comment? Regards, At 12:58 AM 7/14/96 -0400, you wrote: >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are >breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy >unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to >factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or >on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much >historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of >my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to >Shaitan than to God. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 00:49:13 -0400 Subject: Re: praying mantis Aha, so you are the writer of beautiful poetry. At first I wondered if you did the translation into rhyme of Ali Haydar's (the foreign famous sufi?) work. It touched me deeply, brother and thank you and welcome here. Warm regards, At 07:59 PM 7/14/96 +0300, you wrote: >Or is it preying mantis? The word for human being and praying mantis in my >language, Seneca Iroquois, happens to be the same, ongweh. Hello! I'm new >here. I'm a praying mantis. Good-bye, Assalaamu Alaykum, >Ali Haydar > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Abrogating and abogated verses asalaam-u-aleikum I don't understand - what is this a transliteration of? I thought transliteration meant representing the sounds of a language written in a different alphabet. Is this in some way related to Sura Al Fatiha? Lily On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > > Saadi Shakur Chisti (Neil Douglas-Klotz) transliteration: > > We affirm that > the next thing that happens occurs only > > With the Divine Void calling our name before > we rayed into existence. > > >From the Original Womb comes both grace and mercy. > The first, a supreme unconditioned love: > before any need arose, a vital power enveloped itself, > creating warmth, heat, radiation from a center > without regard to what was lost or gained, > a natural gift of the Cosmic Self. > This always continues. > > The second, a tender response to all cries, > all unfulfilled potential: > the primordial pull of cosmic kinship bears > acts of compassion, responding to all needs > as though heard for the first time-- > the breath of love in response to a sighing universe, > the quality of mercy. > > We begin > by means of the Entire Unfolding Cosmos > from whose Womb is born the Sun and Moon of Love. > ---------------- > > The whole of al-Qur'an is contained right here in the prologue. > It's all we need in the latter part of the 20th century. In fact > all we need is the first word: Bismillah! (Praise be to Allah!) > > Peace and love along precious threads, > > tanzen > > ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 08:27:03 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Frank Running Still - --=====================_837447363==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - --=====================_837447363==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="BEKPOEMS"; x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="6D646F73" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BEKPOEMS" /1dQQ7EDAAABCgIAAAAAAAIAEgAAAAAAAAAAAAAACzACAAAAKAAAAOMCAAAACQEAAAAGAAAACwMA AAgBAQAAAAwAAAARAwAACAIBAAAAEAAAAB0DAAAAVQEAAAAYAAAADAEAAAklAQAAAAYAAAAkAQAA CCABAAAALwAAACoBAAAIIgEAAAB7AAAAWQEAAAAhAQAAAIAAAAAtAwAACSkBAAAABAAAAK0DAAAI IwEAAAAPAQAA1AEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADwAFB4MF4wKAAABOQEAcGAA KAUAABAAAAEABQBYAjwA1Bc2EFgHAAABOQEAAGAAKwUAABAWAEMAbwB1AHIAaQBlAHIAAAAAAAAA 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--=====================_837447363==_-- ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 08:38:17 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: what is immortality Who was it who wrote to me, I don't know how to address you. I call myself God. Why not give it a try? Long words, short meaning. Long sentence, short knowing. In English all reality is divided into eight basic pronouns. Now why so many? Why so arbitrary? Why for example always to distinguish the two characteristics of human and sex (he/she)? In my language we do not have eight basic pronouns, but more than sixty. One is enough. Ana al-Haqq. P.S. I am overwhelmed with all the kind words. One is enough. Ali Haydar. ------------------------------ From: Hafizullah@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 02:59:48 -0400 Subject: Re: What is immortality? In a message dated 96-07-14 19:25:41 EDT, you write: << Wonder what other languages are in this state, no verb "to be"? >> Arabic, for one. ------------------------------ From: gws@wolfenet.com Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 01:01:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Work Hi I'm sending this for two reasons. My son, Alex Steffen, is looking for soemone to do some WWW advertising. His e-mail is asteffen@u.washington.edu. I think that's up your alley isn't it. Contact him, I told him you might. I'm leaving the Tariqas. I'm swamped and can't keep up with it. Thanks and let's keep in touch. Habib N. ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:14:07 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Frank Rumming Newtry - --=====================_837457393==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - --=====================_837457393==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="NEWTRY" Come out of that ocean of wine, Tanzen, Where your love-sick heart has thrown you. I challenge you to a footrace on the bare ground. You who have lain on your back with your feet in the air Holding the sun between your knees and bouncing it up To roll on the soles of your bare feet, Surely you can run barefoot on ice and fire with me. Like Jalaladdin you came to the starting line Riding on a lion, holding a viper for a whip. I came like Hajji Bektash, mounted on a stone. Why can't I get this ass to move? Is it because I call it eshek (donkey) instead of ashik (lover, uninitiated Bektashi)? When I throw my mulberry staff, it refuses to stick in the ground. But I am not afraid of you, Tanzen. Ha! You do not even deign to run, You who step over stars, The puff of air where you put down your foot sends Jupiter reeling on its axis. Remember, a footrace from sunrise to sunset. I stop to catch my breath beside a wall With those who are sitting there eating grapes And spitting out the seeds. Before I go on, I tell them about the time I was in a village two miles west of the Euphrates, And we sat around a common dish on the second floor, Above the goats and chickens, And they told me, We are Turkish, we are not like the Arabs Who eat with their fingers (What did God do before forks were invented?). I had to take the spoon in my left hand (With Arabs I can eat properly, picking up bits of sheep-brain and rice in my right hand), And he said, You eat like Shaytan. Ah! You recognized me. Then this is not the first time you have entertained the devil? You just walked along, Tanzen, Maybe thinking about getting back to your swimming, Haven't you had enough? When you walk, your gills say Hu. I had to stop again to grate corn for my grandmother Standing there in a red sweater with a hole in the elbow, Moccasins on her feet, Grating fresh corn on the cob with a piece of tin roofing With nail holes punched in it, Can you grate corn, miracle man, without bloodying your knuckles? No, when you want something to eat, You just reach out, pluck a galaxy and suck the juice out of it. I sit down under the black walnut tree with the nuts all around me on the ground, For all the world like green tennis balls. If I knew how, I would crack a nut. By this time I was two days behind in a one-day race. You had long since crossed the finish-line with no sweat, The cheering crowd dispersed and you went home to supper. I will finish this race with dignity, Every huffing breath panting Hu, Hu, My polyester dishdasha clinging to my sweaty hips, (Who of us wears wool?) My gray beard flapping on my shoulder, I have lost a turkey feather from my headdress And I will not go back to fetch it. I swear I crossed the right Path at least three times during this race. I will finish this race with dignity. I turn myself into a rabbit, Twitch my whiskers and donkey-like ears, Sniff at the finish-line and then with my little pink eyes Peer inward at the winner. - --=====================_837457393==_-- ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:05:36 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Frank Running Still - --=====================_837460480==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - --=====================_837460480==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="BEKPOEMS.ASC" Come out of that ocean of wine, Tanzen, Where your love-sick heart has thrown you. I challenge you to a footrace on the bare ground. You who have lain on your back with your feet in the air Holding the sun between your knees and bouncing it up To roll on the soles of your bare feet, Surely you can run barefoot on ice and fire with me. Like Jalaladdin you came to the starting line Riding on a lion, holding a viper for a whip. I came like Hajji Bektash, mounted on a stone. Why can't I get this ass to move? Is it because I call it eshek (donkey) instead of ashik (lover, uninitiated Bektashi)? When I throw my mulberry staff, it refuses to stick in the ground. But I am not afraid of you, Tanzen. Ha! You do not even deign to run, You who step over stars, The puff of air where you put down your foot sends Jupiter reeling on its axis. Remember, a footrace from sunrise to sunset. I stop to catch my breath beside a wall With those who are sitting there eating grapes And spitting out the seeds. Before I go on, I tell them about the time I was in a village two miles west of the Euphrates, And we sat around a common dish on the second floor, Above the goats and chickens, And they told me, We are Turkish, we are not like the Arabs Who eat with their fingers (What did God do before forks were invented?). I had to take the spoon in my left hand (With Arabs I can eat properly, picking up bits of sheep-brain and rice in my right hand), And he said, You eat like Shaytan. Ah! You recognized me. Then this is not the first time you have entertained the devil? You just walked along, Tanzen, Maybe thinking about getting back to your swimming, Haven't you had enough? When you walk, your gills say Hu. I had to stop again to grate corn for my grandmother Standing there in a red sweater with a hole in the elbow, Moccasins on her feet, Grating fresh corn on the cob with a piece of tin roofing With nail holes punched in it, Can you grate corn, miracle man, without bloodying your knuckles? No, when you want something to eat, You just reach out, pluck a galaxy and suck the juice out of it. I sit down under the black walnut tree with the nuts all around me on the ground, For all the world like green tennis balls. If I knew how, I would crack a nut. By this time I was two days behind in a one-day race. You had long since crossed the finish-line with no sweat, The cheering crowd dispersed and you went home to supper. I will finish this race with dignity, Every huffing breath panting Hu, Hu, My polyester dishdasha clinging to my sweaty hips, (Who of us wears wool?) My gray beard flapping on my shoulder, I have lost a turkey feather from my headdress And I will not go back to fetch it. I swear I crossed the right Path at least three times during this race. I will finish this race with dignity. I turn myself into a rabbit, Twitch my whiskers and donkey-like ears, Sniff at the finish-line and then with my little pink eyes Peer inward at the winner. - --=====================_837460480==_-- ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:31:55 +0800 Subject: mantis only pretend to sleep there's more to the story of sleeping mantis. actually, he (male mantis?) like to peek at people sleeping, especially with his ability to become invisible. So the children, devised a plan and by singing the magic words: mentada mentadu macam mana si X tidur? the mantis happily obliged telling its secrets. so that's how the naughty mantis and the children of the forest became friends and play together :) ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:50:13 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Al-Haqq Ya Maarof! Assalaamu-'Alaykum rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu! Innallaha al-Haqq! Surely there is a great reward for the One who says only Allah is al-Haqq. To drink from the fountain of al-kauthar. God is One and there is none besides Him. Therefore there is only one who can say I. They killed Al-Hallaj because he said, "Ana al-Haqq." They understood correctly that he meant that he himself was God by saying this. Ana al-Haqq, I am truth. They might have let him live. Why should they kill a man for telling a lie? Had any of those who agreed to his death refrained from lying when it was to their advantage? Not one. It was not to his advantage when Al-Hallaj told that lie. Maybe the Devil made him do it. Of course Al-Hallaj was not God. I am God. Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:29:23 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: re: mantis and al-Haqq Ashhado alla ilaha illallah Ashhado anna Muhammadar-rasullullah I bear witness that there is no god but Allah I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah Ya Maarof Assalaamu Alaykum The I that you cannot call Allah must not be called Allah, because that I does not exist. If I believe that such an I exists with Allah, that is shirk. If I say I am not God, then that is shirk, for affirming that not-God exists affirms a second to God. But He is One, praised be He, Qul huuuuuuuuuuwa Allaho ahad... But I am only God, pay no attention to me! Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 05:47:26 +0100 Subject: Re: Tanzen about Lalla In a message dated 96-07-14 20:18:11 EDT, you write: >> ----I couldn't push anyone in right now. i just finished the relaxation >meditation, and I am just kind of floating around in lalla land. K. Lalla. oh, sister, would you not push me in ... even if i asked you?! ;) <> - ----Well hellow Tanzen, Woodsong, no I just got home and it's dark now, maybe you want a moonlight swim (push you in Tanzen) and woodsong and I will watch! K. Lalla 0000000h! ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 19:50:00 +0700 Subject: What is immortality? Fellow Seekers: The file below is a forward from a Friend who received a copy of my post "What is immortality?" I hope his answers serve the spiritual development of One and All. -- Martin >Date: 14 Jul 96 17:29:04 EDT >From: MICHEL DURANT <102506.647@CompuServe.COM> >To: Martin Schell >Subject: What is immortality? > >Specific immortality is the concept that when your present life ends >>and "you" die, "you" go somewhere. >> >>Who is the "you" and how does he/she relate to the continuum? >> >>martin > >Easy question easier answer. Consciousness evolves. It starts out as pure >light matter coming out of the origin and goes thru the enneagon I invented >describing the process. >9-pure light matter (plasma). Buddhic Plane Protocosmos >8-gaseous light matter Superior Astral Plane Knowledge >7-liqiuid light matter Astral Plane....Pure Love--Baba >6.mineral light matter Physical Plane- Earth >5.vegetable light matter >4. animal ight matter >3. social animal--mankind light matter >2. humankind light matter >1. Humankind light matter in Unity with Everything >9. Return to Origin > >These are the billions of years process that Divine Consciousness experiences in >order to have the emperical experience and recognition of His Creation. The >Primary core does not change...it is permanent. In order to investigate the >Creation at each level it assumes a protective body (psyche) in which it is >encapsulated. This body has a memory bank and records everything in the >DNA/RNA. As it evolves it is capable of more sophisticated experieinces--higher >life forms. Yet the internal being does not and cannot chnage or be affected by >it's experience. It is gathering knowledge of it's own Creation and loses that >understanding when it leaves nature. > >This is the break between Man in Natural World and Man in Social Kingdom....He >now has a complex physical body that is capable of recognition of himself as >himself yet in a primitive state that can be developed by experience over many >lifetimes...where he finally asks the Buddhic questons...Who Am I?, Where Am I? >and What is Happening?....bingo! >At this point, whenever it occurs, he begins a process of awakening. This can >be a very long process on his own. He Knows ever time his body dies...After the >death of the body he Knows what is happening...he knows the answer but the Panic >of the death and the shock of birth in the physical realm causes him to >forget...If someone has left markers or keys, it is possible he can >remember...but his mind is in charge and really knows nothing. The Pons keeps >him from accessing his data base, yet, in each life he is the result of the last >and all before that...he does not know his purpose though. > >Each time he dies, his mutable body--his psyche, is subject to the laws of gases >and can start expanding to where he is no longer capable of maintaining >molecular cohesion...so he is forced to get back into another physical body >while he is still in liquid light, or his psychic body will dissolve, leaving >him, as he was in the very first moment of leaving the Origin,,,a tiny speck of >Light matter...with no Relative Mind. >The memory and experience goes with the psyche...when your computer hard drive >crashes >all files, all good works, all history dissappears. We have back-up tapes for >that event... > >Consciousness has a backup tape also but it is in the crystallization of the >Psyche. Once crystalized that tiny spark has a permanent body with it's >permanent historical memory... >the Continuum. And it can remain in the life process or leave it for other >planes depending on the level of the crystallization....This crystallization is >relatively Permanent. To remain in this solar system, the diamond body, now >capable of permanently recording it's experience, is required and cannot be >destroyed by anything in this system...but wander outside to another system in a >much different speed and whamo!!!!! > >So a second body is needed to traverse the Galaxy...a third is neccessary to >traverse the cosmos and a fourth is neccessary to go anywhere, >anytime...completion....Absolute permanence in the 4 realms and in the 12 >heavens ( three per Realm). So there is only One >Being that constitutes the Creator, the projection of the Creation, and is the >constituent of all matter fine or dense, light or apparent no-light, the primal >matter. This same One is the voyager that travels thru His own creation. He Is >the same that lives a life as a carrot and is eaten by and becomes the deer that >ate the carrot...unchanging except in the container in which it finds itself and >the abilities and capacities of that container to sense the exterior. > >That shift from container to container is known here as 'Death'. But because >the level of understanding here on this world has primarily been an >identification with the physical plane, we assume that the container is the >person and that when the container dies, the person has died...so the debate >rages....the person is no longer active so he is dead and has gone to XXX! Each >group has it's own XXX! and defends it to the death! Interesting eh! > >One point that cannot be ignored and is the cause of tremendous speculation and >debate is the tenacious ability of some Beings, who having suffered a great deal >here and/or are attatched to some sentimental situation on this planet, remain >here when their physical body deteriorates and stops functioning. This planet >is loaded with 'ghosts' that are very real but their evolution is on hold >because of some event or situation that tied them here seeking resolution...as >in life so in death. For this some cultures made going for the light extremely >important so that the ghost, free of its fixation, would continue on. However, >some Warrior Kings also created faithful ghosts, that stayed with the King and >reported all the goings on like a great unseen spy. > >Now we are coming into conscious existence and thaat means conscious dying or >transition as well. That means, that if there is a Conscious Humanity here when >we come in, the chances are pretty good that we will remember who we are, where >we are, and what is going on. This is the bottom line of the >Continuum...remembering on the Physical Plane of existence. With this >accomplished we can, as Boddhi Sattvas, return here to help the others or move >on to the Next Plane of Existence...Astral Plane. For this we need a >cyrstallized Diamond Body or it's back to Poland..... > >Does that answer your question, Buddha? > >Michel's note...except for correcting the typos this has been a transmission >from the source. >Feel free to use this text in any way you wish. > >YFIW-Michel D. > > ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #63 ****************************