From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:50:52 1996 Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:31:34 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #62 tariqas-digest Sunday, 14 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 062 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 07:18:30 +0800 Subject: Re: abrogated and abrogating verses On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Thomas McElwain wrote: >Dearest Tanzen >How right you are. Even the dot below the ba is sufficient. Ya Ali! >Abrogation is a matter of time and place, but I God do sing the holy Qur'an >throughout all eternity, even the abrogated aayaat. > > Beautiful. I've read this explanation many times in books, but brother Thomas, your words are so clear... thank you - -maarof ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:29:11 -0700 Subject: Re: What is immortality? Hello, folks! Hafizullah@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 96-07-14 00:11:43 EDT, you write: > > << Specific immortality is the concept that when your present life ends > and "you" die, "you" go somewhere. >> > > << Who is the "you" and how does he/she relate to the continuum? >> > > In the sufi perspective, who "you" is depends on who you think "you" is. Did you know, Hafizullah, that there is no verb TO BE in the Hawaiian language? Think of that! No expressions like "I am", "He is", "I was", "You are", etc... just think of that... these Oh so spiritual people with an oral language with no verb "to be". What could it signal? "Being" without a word for it? "To be" implies separation? Yes? Wonder what other languages are in this state, no verb "to be"? We decorate this speck of time, this palce, but the Real us is beyond times and places. [...] > If you are identified with that of your being which is uncreated and most > essentially YOU, behind and beyond the personal ego, it doesn't go anywhere > because it doesn't come from anywhere: It is intrinsic in the fabric of the > universe. That awareness IS immortality. And awareness has something to do with consciousness? No? Yes? Yes/no, Allah! Thanks for your beautiful post, very interesting... and very clear! Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:37:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Tanzen about Lalla In a message dated 96-07-14 18:00:23 EDT, you write: >I think Tanzen after what you just said about me, you must have ate too many >berries in the vineyard. You need a good dunking in the "ole swimming >hole and may the fishes tickle your toes. Love Kaffea Lalla > (what do you think WoodSong!) Hey, kl! I think that what tanzen said was right on, you are my zenfully sweet inspiration! And you already know i've seen your Beauty! But i do agree with you.... shall we 'encourage' (read: PUSH!) him in? ... :) >>whispering to lalla>> if tanzen's not around, try frank! :) ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:37:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Sleeping mantis Dear Ones! Ali Haydar: >>>Or is it preying mantis? The word for human being and praying mantis in my >>>language, Seneca Iroquois, happens to be the same, ongweh. Hello! I'm new Kaffea Lalla: >>Wom Ali! That is an amazing coincidence, or is it. Only Allah knows! >>P. mantis says Hellow, ongweh. back maarof: >At this part of the world, the mantis is thought of as a "sleeping" >rather than "praying" or "preying". I remembered a game-song >I used to play as a child. A group of children will sing to >the sleeping mantis, and ask it how each of us sleep. (Of course, >someone will have to hold the sleeping mantis). > >A song to ask the mantis will be like this: > >Mentada mentadu macam mana Ongweh tidur? >(Mr/Mrs Mantis, how did Ongweh sleep?) > >So the mantis, with eyes closed (and half smiling) will move its >hands, and showed how Ongweh slept. This /must/ be Heaven! thank you, my Beautiful friends! :)(: only love ... (at least that is my intention! :) woodsong ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:47:22 +0700 Subject: Jafar al-Sadiq This man was the sixth Imam. The Encyclopedia of Islam describes him as an alchemist. Was he a sufi? martin ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:03:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Transmigration of Souls (Was Re: Babies without Personality) Hello, folks! Hudoyo Hupudio wrote: > > Asssalamualaikum: > > At 03:11 PM 7/4/96 -0700, Frank Gaude wrote: > > >My own feelings, much coming from intuition, indicate that each child prays > >to be born into a particular situation, to a particular set of parents, and > >each has a unique past, a unique set of experiences, and a unique set of > >adventures to live through: permiting God to know self, Self, through us. > > There is a great dichotomy in spiritual thoughts, at > least gleaning from my interactions with fellow human > beings: > > On one side, there is the belief that our souls (whatever > they are) go through a long cycle of transmigration from > life to life bringing along experiences and being reborn > again and again with whole sets of potentialities coming > from experiences in past lives, ready to develop into > distinct personalities. This belief is presented as > explanation of the sometimes baffling differences in > personalities among siblings and even among twins, and > also explanation for the inequalities and injustices in > the world. If it is true, then what about the lower forms > of life: do they have souls which also transmigrate? All created things have something of the uncreate within them, don't they? Thus we find that all goes back whence it came... can one parition infinity? Each tiny element in the manifest world depends on others for its "quality" of existance, starting with the void (that vacuum of the scientists), the subatomic particles (that make the waves), to the atoms, the molecules, the cells, minerals (rock people), plants, animals, humans, jinns, and angels. What we have is an ever changing transformation of energy coming into the world of the create from the world of the non-create. The non-create is mysterious, yes. > This belief seemed to be adopted by Hinduism and Buddhism > among the great religions. (I'm not very sure about the > beliefs of indigenous populations: the American Indians, > etc.) > > On the other side, there is the belief that God creates > each individual soul at a certain point in time, gives > them one, and one only, chance at life, and then takes > them back at death. This belief seemed to be adopted by > Judaism, Christianity and Islam religions. Yes, and the same applies as above. > Could the two beliefs be reconciled? Sure. > In what way? By recognizing there is no inner and outer, that separation is a matter of level of consciousness. As matter, mind, spirit, evolves, is transformed, personality changes as well... > What is the truth of the matter according to the Sufi tradition? Now that is a tough one for me... what tradition? going back to Murshid? to Mohammad? to Jesus? to Zarathustra? to Krishna? to Rama? to the first Adam? to the crack (self-consciousness) that is intuition? During all this period covered by these personalities, each individual has a unique understanding of their God, their Absolute... no two people hold the identical belief or understanding, else there would not be two but one. Hope you get my drift! That's what "soul" cycles are all about. Words suck when it comes to the "unseen". But that is our work! I am always amazed to find sufis who are not pantheists. When it comes to the "unseen" I DO BELIEVE there are as many beliefs as there are human beings. > Wassalam, > > Hudoyo Hupudio, > Indonesia Wow, Hudoyo, I somehow missed this most interesting of posts... how could we let it go for so long? Sloth! Peace and love, and hope you and Ali Haydar (Thomas McElwain) get to meet bodily, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:16:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Tanzen about Lalla >In a message dated 96-07-14 18:00:23 EDT, you write: > >>I think Tanzen after what you just said about me, you must have ate too many >>berries in the vineyard. You need a good dunking in the "ole swimming >>hole and may the fishes tickle your toes. Love Kaffea Lalla >> (what do you think WoodSong!) > > >Hey, kl! >I think that what tanzen said was right on, you are my zenfully sweet >inspiration! And you already know i've seen your Beauty! But i do agree with >you.... shall we 'encourage' (read: PUSH!) him in? ... :) >>whispering to >lalla>> if tanzen's not around, try frank! :) > > > ----I couldn't push anyone in right now. i just finished the relaxation meditation, and I am just kind of floating around in lalla land. K. Lalla. > ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:29:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Sheikh In a message dated 96-07-14 13:07:44 EDT, you write: >>I pray that you find the Shakyh of your heart Kaffea for I feel you deserve >>it, >>But only ALLAH know's best so keep asking. >> >>Sh. J-Kenyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid >>Maqam-r-Ruh >>Resource Service, >>Chicago,Ill. >>----- >Thankyou Sh. J-Keyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid. Could you please explain your name >and the meaning. I'm sure you wrote to me before in the beginning when I >first joined tariqas but my memory fails me. Love Kaffea Lalla. Yes Kaffea I have written to you before as I came to the list a week before you did, My name is a mixture of eastern africa and middle eastern. My legal name is Kenyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid, which means Fire Arrow of Kenya, Servant of the All - Mighty, One who is Thankful. My murids (students) address as Shakyh Kenyatta or Sh. Jomo-Kenyatta Afi Haamid Abdul-Hadi. Thanks Kaffea for being here, Salaam & Love. Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:50:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Sheikh or Shakyh Fire Arrow of Kenya Servant of the All Mighty, One who is thankflul It is a poem written by the POET of POETS Dear Beloved Shakyh Kenyatta May we circle the One we love... Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:52:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Shadows > >Maarof wrote regarding diferent branches from Hazrat Inayat Khan's initiation >>>>>My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves >>as shadow of One or different shadows of One?<< > >It is hard to see one's shadow when facing the light, when facing away you >see lots of interesting shadows. Really, mostly we see each other as brothers >and sisters, not that that is allways calm and peaceful! Of course sometimes >some think otherwise except that just like the Prophet (saws) who never >thought all his children wouldn't develop and change from what he was, and >even cherished that, neither did Pir-o-Murshid Inayt Khan think that, and i >suppose that most other Pir-0-Murshid's of other orders have had the same >thoughts and sensibilities and difficulties. Mostly they just say, please >don't speak ill of any of my leaders, and thank god that is where most of us >can leave it and just enjoy each other, like on this forum which is perhaps >most valuable in that diverse orders who are all children of a common seed >can deeply enjoy and enrich themselves with each other, something that the >founders would cherish greatly. > Asha Dear Asha: This is the binary state I was speaking of: either toward(s) the one or with one's back to the one. Of course there are an infinite numbers of possibilities of alignment between these two limits within some uncertainty principle. And we or specifically I am most sensitive to how much out of alignment I am at each moment. LOve Raqib > > > - -- <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 18:03:21 +0100 Subject: Muslim Woman of Bosnia I read today about mass burial grounds were found of the husbands of Muslim Woman who are left without financial help since their husbands were there sole providers, OTHER than ALLAH. This was in our local paper, so I imagine if you watch the news which I don't much, there will be more about this. I cannot imagine what it would be like to live in a place where wholesale killing, murder, and death is all around. Let us hope that Americans, and other countries will aid these woman and their children. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:15:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Sheikh or Shakyh In a message dated 96-07-14 20:52:58 EDT, you write: >Fire Arrow of Kenya >Servant of the All >Mighty, One who is thankflul >It is a poem written by the POET of POETS >Dear Beloved Shakyh Kenyatta >May we circle the One we love... >Kaffea Lalla. I hope we both shall circle the throne of ALLAH covered in devine love, through our meditations, and dreams. Insha-Allah I would like to meet your Shakyh one day and say what a beautiful job he has done on the path of teaching you Kaffea. Your Brother on the Path, Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:30:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Muslim Woman of Bosnia In a message dated 96-07-14 21:07:32 EDT, you write: > I >cannot imagine what it would be like to live in a place where wholesale >killing, murder, and death is all around. Let us hope that Americans, and >other countries will aid these woman and their children. >Kaffea Lalla I pray for the same Kaffea, but on the other hand the Muslim Ummah must stand as one first since we do have muslim countries that have been blessed with abundant wealth. I'm glad you brought this up fore once the media stops writting about something we tend to forget but you and I haven't. I shall keep praying that ALLAH gives them ease (MERCY). Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:44:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Tanzen about Lalla In a message dated 96-07-14 20:18:11 EDT, you write: >> ----I couldn't push anyone in right now. i just finished the relaxation >meditation, and I am just kind of floating around in lalla land. K. Lalla. oh, sister, would you not push me in ... even if i asked you?! ;) <> ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:42:06 -0400 Subject: meditation and sticky threads... Dear tanzen! :) >No. It is the way of the intellect, the way of the head... that mind that >connects spirit to body, brain. And of course brain gets and gives signals >from >every cell in the body. Mind connects body to spirit and spirit connects to >universe. All is connected. Subconscious (instinct), conscious (intellect), >superconscious (intuition), each are minds with spirit behind them... and >each >with communication channels, between themselves and "outer" world, called >"sticky >threads" or strings or cords, that carry messages of coordination. Channels >to both inner and outer worlds open as our conscious opens. I think i'm beginning to get this... :) Coordination? Between and among the 'three'... or between the three and the "outer"? both? Messages of coordination? please.... a little more, sir? :) Does meditation open these channels? How to 'focus'? WHAT to focus... simply attention on what is ... Anyone? Consciousness. Oh, to be conscious! :) apologies to Yusof? (Cat Stevens)> love, woodsong ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:43:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? >There are human societies today, for example the Batek tribe in interior >parts of Peninsular Malaysia, IMO as "smart" as people in this e-list >although they do not learn any alphabets or read books. It was discussed >in this list, about the use of myths by people in the old days to >explain the realities surrounding their lives. So, if we go back to >the experience of the child watching birds, to a Batek-child, a bird >is not just a bird, but as a spirit being. Yes! Thank you, maarof. and yes... God knows best. ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 18:51:26 -0700 Subject: RE: Jafar al-Sadiq - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB71B5.D7B4F300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Jafar al-Saddiq is considered a Sufi and is found in some Persian = silsilas. There is also a much larger body of literature connecting him = with the line of Sufism stemming from Salman al-Farsi than I have found = elsewhere with respect to the latter. As with the other Imams, he wore = a patched khirqa in addition to the robe handed down from Imam Ali. In = some respects one may regard him among the first wave of "esoteric" = Sufis during the Islamic era in contrast to the = ascetic/contemplative/world-denying Sufis such as Adham al-Balki, Abu = Hashim, Hasan al-Basri, etc. Some of the practices he gave his disciples are, IMHO, more developed = than his non-Shi'ite Sufi contemporaries. For an excellent summary, as = well as the esotericism and Sufism of the other Imams, see, Mohammad = Ali-Amir Moezzi's Le Guide Divin Dans Le Shi'isme (Editions Verdier). Blessings, Nur - ---------- From: Martin Schell[SMTP:martindo@yogya.wasantara.net.id] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 1996 4:47 PM To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Jafar al-Sadiq This man was the sixth Imam. The Encyclopedia of Islam describes him as an alchemist. 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I have no control over the matter, so please ignore them. = Frequently I must use Lotus Notes for my email, and every incoming email = I receive has a "dat" file. Otherwise, I have at no time sent a = document to Tariqas as an attachment. If at any time I should send an = attached text file, I will make an effort to make note of it under the = subject heading. Blessings, Nur ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:21:31 -0400 Subject: Re: carol's questions Hello, Ali Haydar! >Assalaamu Alaykum, peace, anyway. The name of the order is not what counts. peace to you, dear brother... and as regards name of order-- understood! >Yes, I am a native speaker of West Virginia Mingo Seneca Iroquois, the >non-League people. We have preserved some little knowledge of the Bektashi >order, which was established among us by the Eckerlin brothers from >Strassburg in 1752. The community was destroyed four years later by in Wow! Please forgive my ignorance! ... but i have never heard of the Mingo Seneca Iroquois, and had no idea there were non-League Iroquois! Wow! :) Could you please tell me more about the Bektashi order? And about the Seneca/Bektashi connection? Is there no connection between your People and the People of the Longhouse? The community was destroyed... does that mean the physical community? or more? >connection with the French and Indian War. See Seneca-EGADS in the internet >for my language work, also a part of Bektashi practice, which was >responsible for preserving the Turkish language, then threatened by Persian >and Arabic, through its Sufi poetry. I'd love to find Seneca-EGADS in the internet, but i'm not sure how. Is it a newsgroup? I will look for it ..... <> >Hope to hear more from you, Thanks for the encourgement... all that was needed was a glance in my direction! :) I pray that i am not asking inappropriate questions... and i trust you will let me know. I am very glad you are here with us! Thank you! love & peace... carol ------------------------------ From: Jawad Qureshi Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:30:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Jafar al-Sadiq On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, Martin Schell wrote: > This man was the sixth Imam. The Encyclopedia of Islam describes > him as an alchemist. Was he a sufi? > > martin > Salam, Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq, may Allah be pleased with him, was one of the greatest men that lived. He was a direct descendent of the Prophet - upon whom be peace - and he was one of the greatest figures in Islamic piety. A sufi . . . I don't know. That term is irrelevant when mentioning people like him. His piety was comparable by Imam Zayn al-Abidin, who's name was really Ali ibn Hussain; Zayn al-Abidin means: the ornament of the Believers. His name is invoked by the Sufis, and many chains of Sufism run through this Imam. Wa salam, Jawad. ____________________ "The Enduring One! You are the Enduring One!" The most helpless slave of al-Rahman al-Ghufoor al-Wudood: Jawad Anwar ibn Muhammad Anwar al-Qureshi ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #62 ****************************