From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:50:17 1996 Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:30:41 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #60 tariqas-digest Sunday, 14 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 060 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 05:43:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Sheikh Martin Schell wrote: > > At 12:58 AM 7/14/96 -0400, you wrote: > > > >On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > > > >> One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The > >> Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has > >> inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us > >> that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind > > > >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are > >breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy > >unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to > >factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or > >on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much > >historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of > >my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to > >Shaitan than to God. > > --"The road to hell is PAVED with good intentions." George Bernard Shaw > (emphasis added to harmonize with above emphasis on the word MORE) I am not sure I agree with this... good intentions always keep you on the path to Self. Of course if "good" doesn't equate to God, then we have to question the meanings of our intentions. > --Was GBS a sufi? He sure sounds like it in many of his writings... Can't say... I do know GBS was the long-time lover of dear Annie Besant, the one who took over the Theosophical Society when Madam Blavadsky died. Poot Annie and her vision of the new saviour just about did the Society in. Peace, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:12:17 +0700 Subject: Shaw, Besant, Blavatsky Tanzen's comment on my earlier comment about George Bernard Shaw: >> --Was GBS a sufi? He sure sounds like it in many of his writings... > >Can't say... I do know GBS was the long-time lover of dear Annie Besant, the one >who took over the Theosophical Society when Madam Blavadsky died. Poot Annie and >her vision of the new saviour just about did the Society in. > Has anyone read the book "Blavatsky's Babboon"? I have heard that it exposes many of the problems of the Theosophists. martin ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 06:50:49 +0100 Subject: Today A new Morning. A new Day. There will never be another Day like Today. The bumblebee surly flies and no one knows why. Some will notice the dark, but I have seen too much of this. Some will talk of vinegar, but I will bring a an envelope of love. My sequet self will read of this in the companionship of Hu... Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 06:54:42 +0100 Subject: Today A new Morning. A new Day. There will never be another Day like Today. The bumblebee surly flies and no one knows why. Some will notice the dark, but I have seen too much of this. Some will talk of vinegar, but I will bring a an envelope of love. My sequet self will read of this in the companionship of Hu... Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:30:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Shaw, Besant, Blavatsky Martin Schell wrote: > > Tanzen's comment on my earlier comment about George Bernard Shaw: > > >> --Was GBS a sufi? He sure sounds like it in many of his writings... > > > >Can't say... I do know GBS was the long-time lover of dear Annie Besant, > >the one > >who took over the Theosophical Society when Madam Blavatsky died. Poor > >Annie and her vision of the new saviour just about did the Society in. > > Has anyone read the book "Blavatsky's Babboon"? No, I haven't. > I have heard that > it exposes many of the problems of the Theosophists. You mean their problems were, are, something other than "personalities"? Vibration and form, particle and wave, individual and community, it all seems so simple; why do we humans make it so complex? Someone has likely written a book with the answer of "why". tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 07:34:50 -0700 Subject: Re: What is immortality? Martin Schell wrote: > >Not all questions require or deserve an answer. > > > >Sometimes it is most productive to search and refine the question so as > >to be most meaningful for an individual and/or group perspective. > > > >Raqib > > Well put, Raqib. Here's an attempt at refinement: [...] > General immortality is the concept that everything which we experience > in our present life/incarnation is a reflection of our immortal self, > which exists as a kind of "continuum". > > Specific immortality is the concept that when your present life ends > and "you" die, "you" go somewhere. > > Who is the "you" and how does he/she relate to the continuum? > > martin "You", who? That's easy: You are the nodal resonance forming junction of particle/wave. Yu-ho! You guys awake? tanzen ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:17:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Hello again .../IMPORTANT In a message dated 96-07-12 23:22:57 EDT, you write: >asalaam everyone and all! > >brother Shaikh. J-Kenyatta...i have a question...what does the Maqam-r-Ruh >do is it a service or khanqa or bookservice or what...thanks. > >wasalaam Wa-Laikum Salaam, To answer your Q"; Maqam-r-Ruh was started April of 1993 and became inactive January 1995, after I was ask to re-start operations August of 1995 by the executive board and chief muqaddam in Michigan the membership began to grow in Chicago, The executive board wants us to become a tariqah, while I insist we stay as a Islamic & Sufi Resource Service by spreading the Dawah of Islam through out North America through resource and teaching materials. We are now applieing for our 501(c) 3, as a religious organization, I'm in the process of trying to find us a sponser who has a 501(c) 3 until ours has been approved. In 1997 we would like to open and islamic center, Spiritual healing center, half-way house for batter and abuse women, and homeless shelter ( Insha-ALLAH). Please everyone pray that we are successful, Sh. Kenyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid Spiritual Guide, Maqam-r-Ruh. ------------------------------ From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 08:36:12 -0700 Subject: RE: Sheikh > > >------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7117.C451C3E0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Abdkabir -- why dig in the "musty recesses of your brain"? Which path is that? > >Peace, Nur > >---------- >From: Abdkabir[SMTP:tbear@access.digex.net] >Sent: Saturday, July 13, 1996 5:58 PM >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Cc: tariqas@world.std.com >Subject: Re: Sheikh > > > >On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > >> One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The >> Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has >> inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us >> that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind >> > >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are >breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy >unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to >factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or >on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much >historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of >my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to >Shaitan than to God. Each moment presents itself with the fundamental issue aligning with or against the beloved. This is at least a binary problem but in many cases is more multivalued. To say there is only one path in alignment with is a bit of a simplification. I perhaps personally tend to be more impressed with my errors, alignment away from, rather than my alignments with. So it then appears there are more paths away from than in resonance with the divine will. A little water and fire on the flames Raqib - -- <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:05:04 +0100 Subject: Re: Sheikh The Sheikh that I would submit too, would not speak against it's neighbors path of love for the Beloved. This Sheikh would teach me how to love my neighbor, live peacefully, and be balanced. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:19:28 -0400 Subject: intentions Hello, Beautiful People! >> >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are >> --"The road to hell is PAVED with good intentions." George Bernard Shaw >> (emphasis added to harmonize with above emphasis on the word MORE) Yes, but good intentions have to be accompanied with good DOings, BEing, yes?! :) I have good intentions... always, i pray... but in action, application, is where i sometimes fail. The WAY to God is the Way.... whether sufi this or that, or buddhist, or taoist, or medicine way... the WAY is not what will lead us to hell... it is our failure to stay on the path /we/ know is /right/... and i need all the help i can get! :) and you all help! Thank you! :) love, peace... woodsong ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:20:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Batin Hey, Jabriel! :)(: >He just sits nose perched toward the nest >stalking prey in the moon light >like a Zen monk eating reality, >until a mosquito distracts >and the chick, shell, and even tomorrow's >flight is forgot. Who will see the Light >behind the Light at dawn during prayer? You will, my friend! >Who will forget the wheather report >and be able to stay present >defining nothing while wings >raise the dead and Grace brings a species >to rise to a new and unknown height? You will, my friend! >Everything reaches toward the One. >But don't forget that where and how >they go about it is what counts. > Jabriel Amen! Keep reminding me! and maybe someday i will sit like a Zen monk and eat reality! YUM!! love ya! carol ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:18:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Sheikh Hello, everybody! Ivan Ickovits wrote: [...] > >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are > >breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy > >unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to > >factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or > >on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much > >historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of > >my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to > >Shaitan than to God. > > Each moment presents itself with the fundamental issue aligning with or > against the beloved. Such is a matter of perspective of the observer, i.e., level of consicousness, don't you think, Raqib? > This is at least a binary problem but in many cases > is more multivalued. At terminal there is no problem, for behind the "yes" balanced by the "no", said to be Allah by many, there is no perch, just All and Nothing, Unknowable. > To say there is only one path in alignment with is > a bit of a simplification. I perhaps personally tend to be more impressed > with my errors, alignment away from, rather than my alignments with. So > it then appears there are more paths away from than in resonance with the > divine will. The Divine Will, The Absolute is the Cause producing from Cosmic Womb (Level of Archangel) the universe. THAT Will transformed an aspect of SELF into laws that govern manifestation. These laws rule, they cannot be broken... they transform spirit into all "things", both good and bad. At the level of Absolute all IS, as it should be, in harmony... the task at our level is simply getting back "home", whence we come. There is no good and bad except that which we personally create, as individuals, as community. Each thought, word, deed, has a transforming power... we reap as we sow! Sow love, that's what we get. Sow hate... Most farmers know this in spades: plant corn you get corn... plant carrots... > A little water and fire on the flames Let's lift just a little more stone so the waters (life on earth) turn into flaming Wine (life in heaven), into the hand of the Wind (beyond human understanding). Let's kiss the flames! If not NOW, when? O Lord, send Thy peace, that our lives may become a divine vision, and in Thy light all darkness may vanish. tanzen ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:27:44 -0400 Subject: Re: What is immortality? Tanzen! >"You", who? That's easy: You are the nodal resonance forming junction of >particle/wave. Yu-ho! You guys awake? with your help, i might be awakening! :) i think you be noodle resonance forming something... <The Sheikh that I would submit too, would not speak against it's neighbors >path of love for the Beloved. This Sheikh would teach me how to love my >neighbor, live peacefully, and be balanced. >Kaffea Lalla I pray that you find the Shakyh of your heart Kaffea for I feel you deserve it, But only ALLAH know's best so keep asking. Sh. J-Kenyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid Maqam-r-Ruh Resource Service, Chicago,Ill. ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:43:45 -0400 Subject: Re: intentions In a message dated 96-07-14 12:21:25 EDT, you write: >The WAY to God is the Way.... whether sufi this or that, or buddhist, or >taoist, or medicine way... the WAY is not what will lead us to hell... it is >our failure to stay on the path /we/ know is /right/... and i need all the >help i can get! :) Carol I agree with you, and I would just like to add is our intentions Good or Bad? Or are we still carrying the same disease hearts and minds which we entered upon the path with or are we willing to except spiritual cleansing and rid ourselves of the garbage with which we came, Fore this is one of the missions of the path. Salaam & Love, Sh. J-Kenyatta A. Haamid Maqam-r-Ruh. ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:32:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Sheikh Jacquie Weller wrote: > > The Sheikh that I would submit too, would not speak against it's neighbors > path of love for the Beloved. This Sheikh would teach me how to love my > neighbor, live peacefully, and be balanced. > Kaffea Lalla Right on, sister! you, the one who makes such beautiful sounds on my screen with your words. Most teachers, guides I have known talk only of what is to be done... they don't have time to even think of the negative, such as speaking against a religion, a path, a way... all point to THE destination: Home! "If you are Muslim, become better Muslim; if Christian, better Christian; if Sabean, better... if you have no religion, here I show you Light; you make your own God." Peace and love, down silver threads of gold, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:54:11 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Kaffea Lalla's sheikh I thought you were the sheikh. I guess I'm new here. You don't have a sheikh yet? I found mine slowly whirling like a drunk man in front of the mosque before the main gate of the Mevlevi "museum" in Konya. He works in a pharmacy, is a descendant of Yunus Emre, and has only one follower, me. Does that matter? Maybe he is still whirling there, ana al-Haqq, Allah, Allah, Allah, repeats the blood flowing in the veins. I thought you were the sheikh, beautiful heart, pure heart, dear Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:59:20 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: praying mantis Or is it preying mantis? The word for human being and praying mantis in my language, Seneca Iroquois, happens to be the same, ongweh. Hello! I'm new here. I'm a praying mantis. Good-bye, Assalaamu Alaykum, Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 10:05:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Sheikh >In a message dated 96-07-14 12:10:12 EDT, you write: > >>The Sheikh that I would submit too, would not speak against it's neighbors >>path of love for the Beloved. This Sheikh would teach me how to love my >>neighbor, live peacefully, and be balanced. >>Kaffea Lalla > >I pray that you find the Shakyh of your heart Kaffea for I feel you deserve >it, >But only ALLAH know's best so keep asking. > >Sh. J-Kenyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid >Maqam-r-Ruh >Resource Service, >Chicago,Ill. >----- Thankyou Sh. J-Keyatta Abdul-Aziz Haamid. Could you please explain your name and the meaning. I'm sure you wrote to me before in the beginning when I first joined tariqas but my memory fails me. Love Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:18:20 -0400 Subject: Re: intentions >Carol I agree with you, and I would just like to add is our intentions Good >or Bad? Whose to say what is "good" or "bad"? I try to simplify my intentions as much as possible. My intention is to Love.... and to make God's Will my own. That is the only thing i KNOW as "good".... so it is the only intention i can have... (and i fall far short of this goal most of the time! ) >Or are we still carrying the same disease hearts and minds which we entered >upon the path with or are we willing to except spiritual cleansing and rid >ourselves of the garbage with which we came, Fore this is one of the missions >of the path. Difficult question isn't it. Thy Will be mine! I must live up to my highest Light. I must do what i KNOW is right, what is 'good'. Then, i pray the garbage will lessen and i will learn how to love ... more and more and more.... :) >Salaam & Love, and to you, my brother! ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:18:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? >--I lived in Japan for several years. The Chinese characters are used >there for much of written text. These characters each indicate meaning >rather than sound. In some cases there are mulitiple pronunciations >for a single meaning. So, what "sound" does a Japanese hear in her/his >mind when she/he reads such a character? I asked once, but no one answered. Thank you for this. For some reason, i just giggled at "but no one answered.".... reminds me of my indian friends! ... and my son! :) What interests me most is that the Chinese characters are not words... like English. They are 'concepts', right? >Indonesian. Sometimes when I contemplate an Indonesian word, I realize >that I "know" its meaning but cannot translate the meaning into English. >Who is the knower? Dunno. Ask tanzen.. he knows everything! < I have the 'problem' you describe above with English... the only language i am fluent (?) in! <> I tend to think in concepts, not words... and it's difficult to translate! ... but... <> >>My son 'learned' to read with total disregard for the alphabet. > >--When I was an apprentice teacher at an innovative school in Portland, >Oregon, I met a teenager who had spent years on the playground, and then >one year, decided to learn to read. He learned quickly by self-motivation. Yes! I have experienced this many times! The beauty of the Self to get where it needs to go! :) Two words from John Holt changed the way i see learning... "Trust children." >--I wonder if your son makes fewer pronunciation mistakes with new words, >due to the fact that he didn't study individual letters of the alphabet? > >--Didn't you mention your other son, who was able to link reality with >books by observing the bird and the book at the same time? <> well.... i know that there is far more to learning (anything) than any teaching (or non-teaching! :) technique! :) My two sons were given approximately the same learning envirronment... and they STILL learned in their OWN way! >--Thai language has nearly all color terms derived from actual objects: >sky color, sugar color (brown), orange color, etc. That might make it >less abstract, but I don't know how to evaluate "less conceptual". This is what i was looking for! :) I have a Thai friend. I shall ask her! :) >--Yes, if you consider a few thousand years to be "recent". It seems >clear that this marked a new phase in our human development, and it is >certainly OK for the critical self to point out that modern society has >gone a bit overboard with our emphasis on information. I think it has more to do with a /loss/ of the "Sacred" than it does with any emphasis. No matter /what/ is emphasized won't matter if we have to basis of what it IS to begin with... :) >--WHY has our development led us to conceptualization and reading? Answer: > >God knows best. <> love & peace... woodsong ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:29:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Sheikh/Shaikh Jacquie Weller wrote: >> >> The Sheikh that I would submit too, would not speak against it's neighbors >> path of love for the Beloved. This Sheikh would teach me how to love my >> neighbor, live peacefully, and be balanced. >> Kaffea Lalla > Tanzen responded: > >Right on, sister! you, the one who makes such beautiful sounds on my screen >with your words. > >Most teachers, guides I have known talk only of what is to be done... they >don't have time to even think of the negative, such as speaking against a >religion, a path, a way... all point to THE destination: Home! "If you are >Muslim, become better Muslim; if Christian, better Christian; if Sabean, >better... if you have no religion, here I show you Light; you make your own >God." > Muhsin adds: Right on, Right on! I'm a little confused about this whole conversation of "paths away from Allah." Yet, maybe 'confused' is a good description of my general state lately. So please forgive, no one take offense by my opinions. They are mine, and need not be yours. They are like rantings and ravings of a lunatic. I know The Books all metion these wide roads away from Grace, but those verses confuse me as well. Where is not-Allah? Where shall I turn and not see only-Allah? Where is so far away that Allah's Grace and Mercy can not reach? Some pray up, some pray down, some pray east, some pray west, some pray outside, some pray inside: Who is correct, Who is wrong? (Huuuu.) I pray toward Mecca, you pray toward a wooden statue of Garcia. This implies my prayers are better than yours? Externals!!! Off the path, on the path, blah, blah, blah... To believe in away from Allah is to believe in other than Allah. Allah is One or Not-One? Am I a monotheist, a monist, or a polytheist, a dualist or trist? The question: Where is LOVE? It surrounds - as water surrounds us swimmers. It permeates - every molecule of my being. IT IS. Love ya'll, Muhsin ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #60 ****************************