From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:49:55 1996 Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 08:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #59 tariqas-digest Sunday, 14 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 059 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve H Rose Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 21:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Reading On Thu, 11 Jul 1996, Fred Rice wrote: > > > > Michael Roland wrote: > > > > >There is a little note above my Sufi master's huge collection of Sufi books: > > >"Read these books, and you won't get smart." > > >Any comment...? > > Assalamu alaikum, > > If I remember right, didn't Shamsuddin Tabrizi burn all of Jalaluddin > Rumi's books? > Oh no - what would he have done with all of this email!!!??? ;-) Yours, Habib ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:34:47 +0700 Subject: Re: One who reads At 03:13 PM 7/13/96 -0700, you wrote: >CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: >> Sing the sweet song, sister! I don't know what any of this means, but God, > i love it! > >I sense that the two of you could be made into one, if the right third was >found! > >Now, where to find that third force? fool sometimes> > >I don't understand but I know what it means! > - --Me, too! And have you ever BEEN that third force???!!!??? martin sharing your joy ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 22:53:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Shaikh At 04:09 AM 7/14/96 +0800, you wrote: Standing on the shore, dear brother? How strange you look on shore with your web feet and that dorsal fin. Jump in! >Assalamualaikum >I cannot claim to be associated with any sufi order because I don't >have any yet. Sort of saying, that I'm still standing on the shore >and watching most of you swimming and diving in the Ocean of Love. >Once in a while, I took the binocular and see whether is is a shark or >a porpoise swimming at the distance. > >Sometimes I feel its safer standing on the shore and just watch the >swimmers and the waves. > >salam >maarof > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 20:09:56 +0100 Subject: Re: One who reads >At 03:13 PM 7/13/96 -0700, you wrote: >>CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > >>> Sing the sweet song, sister! I don't know what any of this means, but >God, > i love it! >> >>I sense that the two of you could be made into one, if the right third was >>found! >> >>Now, where to find that third force? >fool sometimes> >> >>I don't understand but I know what it means! >> >--Me, too! And have you ever BEEN that third force???!!!??? > >martin >sharing your joy > >***Hi martin, jump in too, there is plenty of room in this "ole swiming hole" Ever swing from a rope in a tree into the water, GOOD TIMES! right, You would make 4/4 which would about make us whole I think, including the bugs...Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 10:05:00 +0700 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? >>> As you read my post, >>> your eyes (and mind) are traveling over various shapes of black on a >>> white background. Your mind "conceptualizes" the words but does NOT >>> conceptualize each letter. Yet, at the time you were learning to read, >>> you DID conceptualize each letter. Now that's a transformation!!! >> >>Yes, yes, and think now what it would mean to understand a sentence or >>paragraph at the alphbet level. > >Think what it would mean to /understand/ a BIRD at the 'alpahabet level'! >Do we necessarily have to learn at the "alphabet level"? - --As far as my conceptual mind can understand "it", when there is learning, there is some kind of compartmentalization of reality, with memory of a moment, comparison, analysis, etc. - --We can also "witness" reality as pure experience rather than be in a conceptual (verbal or image, but still conceptual) learning mode. >I'd be very interested in hearing others experience in this. Is this a >"western" concept? - --I lived in Japan for several years. The Chinese characters are used there for much of written text. These characters each indicate meaning rather than sound. In some cases there are mulitiple pronunciations for a single meaning. So, what "sound" does a Japanese hear in her/his mind when she/he reads such a character? I asked once, but no one answered. - --In the case of China, there are actually different pronunciations for different parts of the country. Cantonese, Hokkien, Mandarin, etc are all distinct spoken languages but everyone of those different speakers can understand the unified written language of the characters, even tho the people will produce different sounds if they read the text aloud. - --I am acquainted with several languages, but nearly fluent in only one besides my mother's (and father's) language, English. That language is Indonesian. Sometimes when I contemplate an Indonesian word, I realize that I "know" its meaning but cannot translate the meaning into English. Who is the knower? > >My son 'learned' to read with total disregard for the alphabet. - --When I was an apprentice teacher at an innovative school in Portland, Oregon, I met a teenager who had spent years on the playground, and then one year, decided to learn to read. He learned quickly by self-motivation. - --I wonder if your son makes fewer pronunciation mistakes with new words, due to the fact that he didn't study individual letters of the alphabet? - --Didn't you mention your other son, who was able to link reality with books by observing the bird and the book at the same time? aren't some >languages much more 'conceptual' in nature? - --Thai language has nearly all color terms derived from actual objects: sky color, sugar color (brown), orange color, etc. That might make it less abstract, but I don't know how to evaluate "less conceptual". >From brother Maarof: > >I'm not sure about alphabet. Is it a recent invention in human evolution? - --Yes, if you consider a few thousand years to be "recent". It seems clear that this marked a new phase in our human development, and it is certainly OK for the critical self to point out that modern society has gone a bit overboard with our emphasis on information. - --WHY has our development led us to conceptualization and reading? Answer: God knows best. salam maarof Martin ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 10:36:11 +0700 Subject: What is immortality? >Dear Ones: > >Not all questions require or deserve an answer. > >Sometimes it is most productive to search and refine the question so as >to be most meaningful for an individual and/or group perspective. > >Raqib > ><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> > Well put, Raqib. Here's an attempt at refinement: What is immortality? The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1972 edition that was part of the "furnishing" in a house that I rented in Yogyakarta a couple years ago) surprised me with its entry on this topic. It describes two types: general immortality and specific immortality. These are derived from ancient Greek concepts that influenced gnostics and thereby the Judaic-Christian-Muslim flow of theology. General immortality is the concept that everything which we experience in our present life/incarnation is a reflection of our immortal self, which exists as a kind of "continuum". Specific immortality is the concept that when your present life ends and "you" die, "you" go somewhere. Who is the "you" and how does he/she relate to the continuum? martin ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:46:47 +0800 Subject: Re: Abrogating and abogated verses On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, Steve H Rose wrote: >Assalamu alaikum. > >On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > >[snip] > >> However, in the Quran, the abrogating verses mark the >> end of the validity of the abrogated verses because their >> heed and effect was of a temporary or limited nature. In time the >> new law appears and announces the end of the validity of the >> earlier law. Considering that Quran was revealed over a >> period of twenty-three years in ever-changing circumstances, >> it is not difficult to imagine the necessity of such laws. > >Doesn't that seem to imply that some sections of the Quran might be meant >to apply specifically to the needs of people at that time, rather than >assuming that they all have the same validity today? > >Yours, > >Habib > Assalamualaikum There is a hadith of the Prophet (saw) which provided a guidance in interpreting the Quran: "Whoever makes a commentary upon the Quran according to his own opinion prepares for himself a place in the Fire." So in this subject, I'm cautious and admit that I don't have the necessary qualifications (foremost is my little knowledge of Arabic), and for public forum such as this I prefer to quote from learned scholars, in the hope that they shed some light on specific questions on the Quran. So I have to clarify, that the "snipped" quoted passage (above) is actually a passage from the book "The Quran In Islam" by Allamah Sayyid MH Tabataba'i. So in the general aspect of your question, Brother Habib, I agree that specific verses, such as concerning Hajj (pilgrimage), it would be no longer suitable to ride camels to Mecca, but to use the knowledge we possesed at present, i.e use the airplane. God knows best. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 20:46:25 -0700 Subject: Re: One who reads Martin Schell wrote: > > At 03:13 PM 7/13/96 -0700, you wrote: > >CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > >> Sing the sweet song, sister! I don't know what any of this means, but > God, > i love it! > > > >I sense that the two of you could be made into one, if the right third was > >found! > > > >Now, where to find that third force? >fool sometimes> > > > >I don't understand but I know what it means! > > > --Me, too! And have you ever BEEN that third force???!!!??? > > martin > sharing your joy A few times, in a big way, but mostly as an unseen neutralizer. O Lord, send Thy peace, that we know joy and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Abdkabir Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 00:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Shaikh > I am fascinated by the existence of several orders (schools?) > or societies, or in this public forum I think it would be > appropriate (I think) to call them "children" of Pir-O-Murshid > Hazrat Inayat Khan. > > So far I have identified three "children", i.e The Sufi Movement, > The Sufi Order of The West and SIRS (Sufi Islamic Ruhaniyyat > Society). There might be more (God knows best). > > I've come to understand that there are disagreements among > these groups. Disagreements are not necessarily bad, The > Prophet (pbuh) said "disagreements among my followers is > a rahma (blessing)". > > My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves > as shadow of One or different shadows of One? > Well, there seems to be plenty of tariqas represented here and elsewhere. But, as my murshid says, "One is either in the tariqa of the nafs or the tariqa of the marifah." Therefore, to reply to your question: better to restate the question, in the light of what my murshid says: Of the two types of tariqas referred to, which one are you in or want to be in? This way of reconfiguring your question - which is, with all due respect, a tad bit abstract, having a slightly boring philosophical air about it - directs us to something more nitty-gritty or essential, IMHO. ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 00:50:09 -0400 Subject: Re: One who reads Hi, Martin! >>I don't understand but I know what it means! >> >--Me, too! And have you ever BEEN that third force???!!!??? > >martin >sharing your joy I'm glad you ALL know what it means! ... I have no idea... although i do suspect that tanzen has indeed BEEN that third force! love & peace, carol -- the blind, ignorant and JOYful :) btw, Martin, glad to have you here among us.. sharing JOY! :) ------------------------------ From: Abdkabir Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 00:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sheikh On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The > Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has > inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us > that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind > And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to Shaitan than to God. ------------------------------ From: Abdkabir Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 00:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sheikh On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The > Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has > inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us > that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind > And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to Shaitan than to God. ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:22:44 +0700 Subject: Re: Sheikh At 12:58 AM 7/14/96 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > >> One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The >> Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has >> inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us >> that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind >> > >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are >breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy >unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to >factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or >on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much >historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of >my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to >Shaitan than to God. > > - --"The road to hell is PAVED with good intentions." George Bernard Shaw (emphasis added to harmonize with above emphasis on the word MORE) - --Was GBS a sufi? He sure sounds like it in many of his writings... ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 00:02:25 -0700 Subject: RE: Sheikh - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7117.C451C3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Abdkabir -- why dig in the "musty recesses of your brain"? Which path is that? Peace, Nur - ---------- From: Abdkabir[SMTP:tbear@access.digex.net] Sent: Saturday, July 13, 1996 5:58 PM To: tariqas@europe.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Sheikh On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The > Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has > inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us > that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind > And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to Shaitan than to God. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7117.C451C3E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiUHAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAAB0YXJpcWFzQGV1cm9wZS5zdGQuY29tAFNNVFAAdGFyaXFhc0BldXJvcGUuc3RkLmNv bQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABcAAAB0YXJpcWFzQGV1cm9wZS5zdGQuY29t AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAZAAAAJ3RhcmlxYXNAZXVyb3BlLnN0ZC5jb20nAAAA AAIBCzABAAAAHAAAAFNNVFA6VEFSSVFBU0BFVVJPUEUuU1RELkNPTQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAA AgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA+o4AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgBBIAB AAsAAABSRTogU2hlaWtoAE0DAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcHAA4AAAACABkAAAADAQEggAMADgAAAMwHBwAO AAAAAQATAAAA/AABCYABACEAAABDODczMzFGQjA5RERDRjExOTlERTQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAAKBwED kAYAyAUAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgLK5pUnG7AR4A cAABAAAACwAAAFJFOiBTaGVpa2gAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7cVJprvsxc8ndCRHPmd5ERVNUAAAA AB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAZ2FsZUBzaW5ld2F2ZS5jb20AAAADAAYQ bx2r+wMABxCEAwAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQUJES0FCSVItLVdIWURJR0lOVEhFIk1VU1RZUkVDRVNT RVNPRllPVVJCUkFJTiI/V0hJQ0hQQVRISVNUSEFUP1BFQUNFLE5VUi0tLS0tLS0tLS1GUk9NOkFC REtBQklSU01UUAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAFkEAABVBAAAmQcAAExaRnWUaUkP/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQ AvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzO3AuQHEwKDNBLMFMV9CoA/CM8J 2QKACoENsQtgbmf4MTAzFFALChViAdAUsChiZGsBoGkFwC0tACB3aHkgZGlnAiALgCB0aGUgItxt dRPAG9AXoGMHkBGwIQQgb2YgeQhhIGICcgtxIj8gV2hp/RFwIAqwHGAcIAQgHGAfECY/CoUKhVBl ANBlLDogIRBOCHAf3Ar0bGkIMTgwAtFpLTE0njQN8AzQI1MLWTE2CqD7A2AT0GMFQBuAJXYKhyQr 6wwwJPZGA2E6Jn4k9gyCgRrnW1NNVFA6AlBZIMByQADQHTIuG/Fl6HgubhHAXSYfJy0GYC8CMChf KWsGEHQIcGRhInkhAEp1bBvQMTMBIQAxOTk2IDU6NDU4IKBNLI8nLVRvDy7PKWsBkAUQcWFzQEJl CHBvcGUuE8Bkmi4FoG0ynyctQ2M0v+s1zzbSdwWwbDegN484n3EuNHViaiUxOh8pa1KKZT+wUxxw aWtoIX/5IoMzNiP3FFEL8iT2H9zuTwOgMKExsTMxMjHDMSFiYQeCTWNDC3AcEHf1JQI6H9w+RgEc gAWgMVC4ZCBzMQAcUhGwIAnANQhgcAQgYzbgBUBub8NKIBGAZG93cyEAAhCfBcAcYRvQCsAcgE9G HFOhIrBnaHQuIRBUHHA1SQdNHUFhLAAdklNwjRtQaTDAB0AgTGkrIGcAIEzBH2FhdU2xTNBuO0oQ IrB2CYAeEBvQSGFmeh4wBUBJbjEAUlFLtxGAA6ARgHNJBwuAc0+R/1GxEbBRoB4wAyBK1CEAB0DL AyAcMXAIcHN1T8Adkt1NWkgcgFNBHQFtC4ANsP9KEBzASQcfghxSTPFM4lChuwOBG9B3MQAfYUug RwRw/1CTWYceICDAHGAEIBwxA4Hua1gRSQcf3EFRURxhA6D/TxALcSEAWXhaS0HQC3ABkLlfgm9v IQBUoQOgIlta9wqFXC888CJOAhxQSuECYH8cgAQAIQAbsF8RAiBgMmv3B5FWMB7RZxzAG8EcsRvA 8QqFdW5xT+EGkAiQShD/JPFLkGhAHTAHgAIwVWJbY/tmIwGgb1GgIQAfUVZRAMDvBBBRkTFhLEBn ZXAlQFrC/QqFZgDQWuAFwBw1G/AN0P8ewDFQHOEdoRvwBPAEkQuA90gRXwId0SdM8QIgHFMfA/9a 5QWwCoVwfWElTeBSgG0z+yEAFzBvXQEcEFlESiAdMP9JoQPwHyFaEmbhCoUesBPA9wWwHsBP8W8/ Y1GQT8BQg/ZJSzEDoGQXoU8hSwBMQL8DYRxTBGBgIhzOCoVtG9D/HiNrAQVAEbAT4FtqUUIRgP9R oB4QCeFM0FdhVaEdoX5wxkwlEAXQT1JFIKBcU99st2ElH3IcQVrzLh/cQj8vQ09EXwqyFsEAhoAA AAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMCAvEUJScbsBQAAIMCAvEUJScbsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6 IAAAAAAmsg== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7117.C451C3E0-- ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 01:47:55 -0500 Subject: Batin Batin On a cool summer night Liem, the farm cat sits transfixed by a chick on the lip of a barn swallow's nest. Mom has stopped bringing the chick bugs and tomorrow taking wing and cutting the air with corners which seem to defy geometry will bring new tests buttressed by what ever promises may have been hidden under the fragile shell. Liem on the other hand does not know anything about that. Tonight his dance is still. He just sits nose perched toward the nest stalking prey in the moon light like a Zen monk eating reality, until a mosquito distracts and the chick, shell, and even tomorrow's flight is forgot. Who will see the Light behind the Light at dawn during prayer? Who will forget the wheather report and be able to stay present defining nothing while wings raise the dead and Grace brings a species to rise to a new and unknown height? Everything reaches toward the One. But don't forget that where and how they go about it is what counts. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:43:41 +0700 Subject: RE:attachment Gale and anyone else: Please refrain from sending attached files, because they do not decode the same way for all systems. I cannot read the files that Gale is sending. They don't seem very long, so why not send them as regular messages? Thanks. martin At 12:02 AM 7/14/96 -0700, you wrote: >Abdkabir -- why dig in the "musty recesses of your brain"? Which path is that? > >Peace, Nur > >---------- >From: Abdkabir[SMTP:tbear@access.digex.net] >Sent: Saturday, July 13, 1996 5:58 PM >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Cc: tariqas@world.std.com >Subject: Re: Sheikh > > > >On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, James McCaig wrote: > >> One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The >> Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has >> inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us >> that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind >> > >And then again, there are many ways to Shaitan, too, even "as there are >breaths in mankind." The trouble is, when one makes such gushy mushy >unqualified pronouncements, as the one above, is it massively neglects to >factor in the difficulty of discerning when you're on the path to God or >on the path to Shaitan. In fact, looking at the scene with as much >historical objectivity as I can dredge up from the more musty recesses of >my brain, it seems there are and have been a Hell of a Lot MORE Paths to >Shaitan than to God. > > > > >Attachment Converted: A:\RESheikh > ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:05:47 +0700 Subject: destiny I found the following Sufi quote while surfing the web: "When he has renounced the world so that he does not desire or act with the urges of his own self, but just to fulfill the commandment of God, he is then commanded to talk to the world and establish contact with it because now there is a portion for him in it which cannot be discarded and has not been created for any other person." Sayyid Shaykh Muhyiddeen Abdul Qadir al Geylani (1077-1166) ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:34:59 +0800 Subject: Re: Shaikh On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Abdkabir wrote: > > >> I am fascinated by the existence of several orders (schools?) >> or societies, or in this public forum I think it would be >> appropriate (I think) to call them "children" of Pir-O-Murshid >> Hazrat Inayat Khan. >> >> So far I have identified three "children", i.e The Sufi Movement, >> The Sufi Order of The West and SIRS (Sufi Islamic Ruhaniyyat >> Society). There might be more (God knows best). >> >> I've come to understand that there are disagreements among >> these groups. Disagreements are not necessarily bad, The >> Prophet (pbuh) said "disagreements among my followers is >> a rahma (blessing)". >> >> My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves >> as shadow of One or different shadows of One? >> > >Well, there seems to be plenty of tariqas represented here and elsewhere. >But, as my murshid says, "One is either in the tariqa of the nafs or the >tariqa of the marifah." Therefore, to reply to your question: better to >restate the question, in the light of what my murshid says: Of the two >types of tariqas referred to, which one are you in or want to be in? This >way of reconfiguring your question - which is, with all due respect, a tad >bit abstract, having a slightly boring philosophical air about it - >directs us to something more nitty-gritty or essential, IMHO. > > Assalamualaikum Thanks Brother Abdkabir, The question I posted was not a question. It is actually an answer to a question from a brother in the list. You are right, it is a tad bit abstract, having a slightly boring philosophical air about it. I found the answer (question?) from a passage in Rumi's Mathnawi. May I know what tariqa you are following? salam maarof ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #59 ****************************