From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:49:42 1996 Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 21:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #58 tariqas-digest Saturday, 13 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 058 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:21:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Shadows Maarof wrote: > >My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves >as shadow of One or different shadows of One? In reality/truth, nothing exists but Allah! Every thing is but a shadow or reflection of The One. (Although this truth sort of kills conversation, I mean, it can be, maybe should be, the answer to all our questions.) Seeking/Being Sought by The One, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:57:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Shadows Maarof wrote regarding diferent branches from Hazrat Inayat Khan's initiation >>>>My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves >as shadow of One or different shadows of One?<< It is hard to see one's shadow when facing the light, when facing away you see lots of interesting shadows. Really, mostly we see each other as brothers and sisters, not that that is allways calm and peaceful! Of course sometimes some think otherwise except that just like the Prophet (saws) who never thought all his children wouldn't develop and change from what he was, and even cherished that, neither did Pir-o-Murshid Inayt Khan think that, and i suppose that most other Pir-0-Murshid's of other orders have had the same thoughts and sensibilities and difficulties. Mostly they just say, please don't speak ill of any of my leaders, and thank god that is where most of us can leave it and just enjoy each other, like on this forum which is perhaps most valuable in that diverse orders who are all children of a common seed can deeply enjoy and enrich themselves with each other, something that the founders would cherish greatly. Asha ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 08:59:34 +0100 Subject: Re: One who reads Who is the One who reads Before the alphabet, The willow tree wrapped me in It's vines... And all was so BIG Before school, I wantched the ants Traveling through the grasses, And kittens playing with Cat tails. Smelled bread baking, and Mother making... Who saw, and heard, and tasted The Wonder when one is small. When I was older, I caught the vision in The Book, but when I was small The All caught me. Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:11:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Shadows Hello, everybody! Salikun@vnet.net wrote: > > Maarof wrote: > > > >My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves > >as shadow of One or different shadows of One? > > In reality/truth, nothing exists but Allah! The consciousness of this is at a level far removed from what is considered "animal" or "human". Do you know Ray of Creation, Muhsin? > Every thing is but a shadow or reflection of The One. Murshid (Inayat Khan) is reported to have stated, "Don't claim everything is shadow or illusion, you might be asked to 'prove it'." Of course, there is little scientific proof for things we call "the unseen". I have found it interesting that scholars are always "studying" mystics, but mystics never study scholars. > (Although this truth sort of kills conversation, I mean, it can be, maybe > should be, the answer to all our questions.) Our spirits, our minds, our brains, seem to prompt us into use. We have been declared over 2500 years ago as "Slayer of Sloth", i.e., laziness, lack of movement, is not the way of human evolution. > Seeking/Being Sought by The One, Yes, this is clear to any mystic. > Muhsin Ya fattah, your name and mine go together like surf and sand, mu-sin and tan-zin... God is beautiful! O Lord, send Thy peace that each of us are peace, tanzen at lake tahoe california usa ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:30:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? Hello, everybody! CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, dear ones! > > >> As you read my post, > >> your eyes (and mind) are traveling over various shapes of black on a > >> white background. Your mind "conceptualizes" the words but does NOT > >> conceptualize each letter. Yet, at the time you were learning to read, > >> you DID conceptualize each letter. Now that's a transformation!!! > > > >Yes, yes, and think now what it would mean to understand a sentence or > >paragraph at the alphabet level. > > Think what it would mean to /understand/ a BIRD at the 'alphabet level'! :) > > Do we necessarily have to learn at the "alphabet level"? No. There is the way of intuition, the way of the heart. > I'd be very interested in hearing others experience in this. Is this a > "western" concept? No. It is the way of the intellect, the way of the head... that mind that connects spirit to body, brain. And of course brain gets and gives signals from every cell in the body. Mind connects body to spirit and spirit connects to universe. All is connected. Subconscious (instinct), conscious (intellect), superconscious (intuition), each are minds with spirit behind them... and each with communication channels, between themselves and "outer" world, called "sticky threads" or strings or cords, that carry messages of coordination. Channels to both inner and outer worlds open as our conscious opens. > My son 'learned' to read with total disregard for the alphabet. ... > not all language is structured in this same way, of course... aren't some > languages much more 'conceptual' in nature? Some languages, like Hawaiian, Hebrew, Arabic, Persian, Aramaic, are very close in sound to that of The Wind. > Even the spoken language of many > Tribes is so very different than most European languages.... hmmm.... Live close to Earth Mother and you begin to sound, vibrate like Her. > Martin, as to the blessing of watching the miracle of learning! Yes! :)(: Yes, it is the reason the rock people and angels bow to us: we can consciously learn by our thoughts, words, actions, if we will such. O Lord, send Thy peace, that we may tolerate all in the thought of Thy mercy and compassion, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 09:58:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Reading (fwd) Sayeed_Siddiqui wrote: > To: tariqas > From: Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor > > Date: 11 Jul 96 11:31:14 > > Michael Roland wrote: > > > > >There is a little note above my Sufi master's huge collection of Sufi books: > > >"Read these books, and you won't get smart." > > >Any comment...? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Peace to All; > > I have recently joined this forum and like the topics being discussed. So do most of us. Could you tell us what is your native language? > I am eliciting my opinion regarding above quote inviting comments. You are stating your opinion? Yes? > I feel that being Intellectual does not qualify for being Intelligent. To be intelligent is to have learned things of value, using what some call the head. > Intellect is a acquired faculty of learning through reading and exploring Using good British English, I be an Americian, intellect is a faculty of human beings. But how we use it is up to us. We acquire understanding of things by reading what others have learned. > while > wisdom (or being smart) is usually a inborn characteristic. Wisdom comes from personal experience, comes from intuition. Some call intuition our superconsciousness, our heart. > Knowledge does not > guarantee understanding. True... each comes from different aspects of the being, knowing from intuition, understanding from intellect. > I have met extremely Intelligent people who are considered illiterate by > society and vice versa. Yes, such is true. > My opinion is that the degree of exposure to any subject is usually > circumstantial. You mean, by accident we come upon understanding and perhaps knowledge? Welcome, Sayeed, to caravanserai, the stopping-off place to repair ourselves for the continued journey... here, wash up, then have a juice. Linger! Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 13:43:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Shadows Assalaamu alaikum. Tanzen asked: >Do you know Ray of Creation, Muhsin? I used to know a Ray Doll of NJ. But, after an all night dhikr last night, my light feeling mind is wondering how to interpret your question. [Does he mean THE Ray of Creation, the creative energy of Allah? Does he mean a book? It sort of sounds like an interesting title to a book or sohbet. Hmmm...When and where was I created? Most likely, when and where are reflections of my limited perception of 3-D time and space. When and where was Erenler? Was it thousands of years ago, and my slice of the soul-pie sat around waiting to be born? Was it moments prior to the moment my soul, Allah's Ru, encountered the matter within the womb? Matter and soul, do they exist as distinct?] Anyway Tanzen, I'll sit, asking, receiving, the multitude of questions which constantly flow from Mind, until, you share - Ray of Creation??? By the way, my knowledge of Arabi is on a childish, alphabetic level. What is the meaning/history of Tanzen (the name)? Muhsin at nowhere NC, 1 hr from Academic Meccas of Duke/Durham & UNC/Chapel Hill ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:00:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Shaikh Assalaamu alaikum. Musin>>>snip, snip What other orders are my e-brothers & e-sisters associated with? Remembering that all divisions are only illusions, - ----------- YES! As someone said, One pie, many slices, hmmm good. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:06:53 +0100 Subject: Bug Kingdom P. Mantis saw a poor dejected termite, "What is the matter dear friend!" The termite said "the trees are cut and only paper cups to eat". "That is poverty", P. Mantis said. ecology Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 02:51:35 +0800 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, woodsong wrote: >Do we necessarily have to learn at the "alphabet level"? >I'd be very interested in hearing others experience in this. Is this a >"western" concept? > There are human societies today, for example the Batek tribe in interior parts of Peninsular Malaysia, IMO as "smart" as people in this e-list although they do not learn any alphabets or read books. It was discussed in this list, about the use of myths by people in the old days to explain the realities surrounding their lives. So, if we go back to the experience of the child watching birds, to a Batek-child, a bird is not just a bird, but as a spirit being. I'm not sure about alphabet. Is it a recent invention in human evolution? God knows best. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:38:51 -0400 Subject: Re: One who reads Beautiful Kaffea Lalla! >Who is the One who reads >Before the alphabet, >The willow tree wrapped me in >It's vines... >And all was so BIG >Before school, I wantched the ants >Traveling through the grasses, >And kittens playing with Cat tails. >Smelled bread baking, and Mother making... >Who saw, and heard, and tasted >The Wonder when one is small. >When I was older, I caught the vision in >The Book, but when I was small >The All caught me. >Kaffea Lalla. poetry speaks the language that words alone cannot... like music, piercing my heart ... enliven my taste buds! Yum! God, life is sensuous! :) Sing the sweet song, sister! I don't know what any of this means, but God, i love it! (Watching /Woodstock/ (the movie)... wow! :) peace & love, carol ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 04:09:27 +0800 Subject: Re: Shaikh On Sat, 13 Jul 1996, Salikun@vnet.net wrote: >What other orders are my e-brothers & e-sisters associated with? > >Remembering that all divisions are only illusions, > >Muhsin Assalamualaikum I cannot claim to be associated with any sufi order because I don't have any yet. Sort of saying, that I'm still standing on the shore and watching most of you swimming and diving in the Ocean of Love. Once in a while, I took the binocular and see whether is is a shark or a porpoise swimming at the distance. Sometimes I feel its safer standing on the shore and just watch the swimmers and the waves. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Steve Phillips Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 16:17:14 +0000 Subject: ephemeral dreams Have been thinking a lot that I want to burn the candle of my life at both ends, to give it away, to be prodigal rather than follow my instinct to be miserly. I have been noticing that the ego, the desire to have permanence and be recognized, is a trap, and a devious one. How well it manages to make us think we are free... our coat of many colors. Is not dying properly just an attitude? Does one not come to understand destiny and obligation by seeing the destinies and obligations constantly on display before us in all of nature? I think of offering the molecules of my body back to the creator to rearrange in whatever way his will sees fit, and likewise my poetry, my heart, my love. For they are after all, his molecules, his poetry and his love. I can only be joyous that he has leant them to me, and the friendships likewise are his gifts to me, all is gift, all is obligation, destiny. Thinking this way yielded the following poem, which I copy here for those who may from time to time think in similar veins. Ephemeral Dreams A speck of dust the earth is, floating in space-time, molecular clocks ticking away at evolution with precise intensity, a speck of dust in the imagination, atmosphere giving hope to the possibility of true knowledge, at one with itself, like a flower bud in the spring, dreaming of fulfillment, anticipating pollination, poised for exuberance, while mother ocean sleeps in the arms of father wind, a speck of dust, whirling into futurity, passionate and aloof. A speck of dust a man is, floating in the womb of destiny like a seed, seeking earth and rain to waken into life-springing motion, sun-seeking journeying, adrift with anticipation upon the solemn silences of nature, later finding rest in the tireless cacophony of insects in an evening still fragrant with blossoms of yesterday. His destiny fits comfortably like a tool in his hands, chiseling him toward truth the way a chick cracks out of her egg, not because she wants too, but because she must. A speck of dust a universe is, prior to the first sudden shift of potential exploding outward creating time and space like ripples in the wake of her motion, dreaming all material possibilities in one sentient instant that no speck of dust can quite forget, not totally, and that no speck of dust can quite remember other than as a yearning, soft and warm, tugging at the heart and mind, to return to the beginning, to uncreated peace. A speck of dust is fine and pure, it dwells in finite awareness like the dreams we share with each other in the morning as the cool blue air enters the room, and we wake into tomorrow as if this were something easily understood, hardly noteworthy, and just as quickly the dream dissolves into a day of motion and into this other thing seemingly more solid than a dream. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- love and peace to you all this summer day, steve ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 16:25:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Shaikh Assalaamu alaikum Ya'll. Maarof wrote: > >Sometimes I feel its safer standing on the shore and just watch the >swimmers and the waves. Join us Maarof. Dive in. The water's fine, perfect, like home. I grok we'll be water brothers soon, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:01:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Shadows Hello, all sentient beings! Salikun@vnet.net wrote: > > Assalaamu alaikum. > > tanzen asked: > > >Do you know Ray of Creation, Muhsin? > But, after an all night dhikr last night, my light feeling mind is wondering > how to interpret your question. Well, you covered many of the possibilities. > [Does he mean THE Ray of Creation, the > creative energy of Allah? Your first response is on the mark. Ray covers Law of Three, and how Law of Seven restrains Law of Three. > Does he mean a book? It sort of sounds like an > interesting title to a book or sohbet. Likely no book has yet been written covering Ray of Creation... the Hindus have a name for the process of going from Brahman Unmanifest (Absolute) to all creation and back again, one Big Breath to another, but the name has escaped me for several years now. > Hmmm...When and where was I created? Starting as a dot, a point without dimensions, you unfolded into wings, into flames, in all directions, conceiving the idea of the universe, for better or for worse. The instant of beginning contains the seed of what follows, vibration and form, and that creates life anew, producing diversity. all according to Law of Three. Vibration and form help us understand the communual existence, an aspect of The One, and how we each relate to such. > Most likely, when and where are reflections of my limited perception of 3-D > time and space. Let's try for six dimensional time-space! Therein, we find no time, all time, and eternity. > When and where was Erenler? Beats me! > Was it thousands of years ago, > and my slice of the soul-pie sat around waiting to be born? Was it moments > prior to the moment my soul, Allah's Ru, encountered the matter within the > womb? Perhaps spirit creates matter, and matter creates spirit, with mind the interface? >Matter and soul, do they exist as distinct?] Yes, just as wave and particle exist, each dimension needing the other, else we are back to the nothing, the absolute "no". Soul is a bunching up of spirit, here and there, and then when to such an extent: we find "consciousness", a feeling of separation, the level of humanity, the pressure point between earth and heaven. > Anyway Tanzen, I'll sit, asking, receiving, the multitude of questions which > constantly flow from Mind, until, you share - Ray of Creation??? I have to get permission to post "frank's version" of Ray. I have it now as seven pieces, each about 100 lines or so, I think, long... will I get permission? Let's go out and see. > By the way, my knowledge of Arabi is on a childish, alphabetic level. You are above me, dear one. To know anything at such a level is likened to knowing the Mind of God. Alphabets are like arrays of subatomic particles! "Out of the mouths of babes... " > What is the meaning/history of Tanzen (the name)? Well, 'tanzen was given to me by my teacher at initiation, declaring it was because of the beautiful graphic design work that I had earlier done and she had seen, all coming from inner planes. Tansen, notice 's' instead of 'z', was an ancient master of music and song in Persia and Northern India, during the period of Emperor Akbar. There are some stories about Tansen's doings I could tell, if you are interested. > Muhsin at nowhere NC, 1 hr from Academic Meccas of Duke/Durham & UNC/Chapel Hill Wonderful... I have been to Chapel Hill long ago, in the 60s, and know something of Research Triangle Park. You are among giants of innovation, of intellectual thinking, scholarship. O Lord, maker, moulder, and builder of the universe, creator of Law of Three: send Thy peace, that we may become a perfect mirror of such, tanzen ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 18:15:44 -0400 Subject: Re: ephemeral dreams steve... your words flow over me like the waves of the ocean gently speak to the shore... the ocean of love that is You, ... you and maarof... us ALL. <> thank you! love... carol ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:15:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Shaikh Salikun@vnet.net wrote: > > Assalaamu alaikum Ya'll. > > Maarof wrote: > > > >Sometimes I feel its safer standing on the shore and just watch the > >swimmers and the waves. > > Join us Maarof. Dive in. The water's fine, perfect, like home. > > I grok we'll be water brothers soon, > > Muhsin Please, please, ya'll, don't forget the sisters, and me, when we are in the waters, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:13:37 -0700 Subject: Re: One who reads CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > Beautiful Kaffea Lalla! > > >Who is the One who reads > >Before the alphabet, [...] > >The Wonder when one is small. > >When I was older, I caught the vision in > >The Book, but when I was small > >The All caught me. > >Kaffea Lalla. > > poetry speaks the language that words alone cannot... > like music, piercing my heart ... enliven my taste buds! Yum! > God, life is sensuous! :) > > Sing the sweet song, sister! I don't know what any of this means, but God, > i love it! I sense that the two of you could be made into one, if the right third was found! Now, where to find that third force? I don't understand but I know what it means! Love, love, love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 16:10:57 +0100 Subject: Re: One who reads >CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: >> >> Beautiful Kaffea Lalla! >> >> >Who is the One who reads >> >Before the alphabet, > >[...] > >> >The Wonder when one is small. >> >When I was older, I caught the vision in >> >The Book, but when I was small >> >The All caught me. >> >Kaffea Lalla. >> >> poetry speaks the language that words alone cannot... >> like music, piercing my heart ... enliven my taste buds! Yum! >> God, life is sensuous! :) >> >> Sing the sweet song, sister! I don't know what any of this means, but God, > i love it! > >I sense that the two of you could be made into one, if the right third was >found! > >Now, where to find that third force? fool sometimes> > >I don't understand but I know what it means! > >Love, love, love, > >tanzen > > >---Now tanzen, Now woodsong, Now lalla, Now who else wants to swim, P. mantis will watch from the shore. Ya Fatah! 3/4 now. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 21:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Abrogating and abogated verses Assalamu alaikum. On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: [snip] > However, in the Quran, the abrogating verses mark the > end of the validity of the abrogated verses because their > heed and effect was of a temporary or limited nature. In time the > new law appears and announces the end of the validity of the > earlier law. Considering that Quran was revealed over a > period of twenty-three years in ever-changing circumstances, > it is not difficult to imagine the necessity of such laws. Doesn't that seem to imply that some sections of the Quran might be meant to apply specifically to the needs of people at that time, rather than assuming that they all have the same validity today? Yours, Habib ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #58 ****************************