From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:33:34 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 00:39:59 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #48 tariqas-digest Saturday, 6 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 048 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 00:37:42 -0500 Subject: This is a test Dear Fariduddien This is a test please inform me if you recieve this. I am also going to send a regular e-mail to tariqas. - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 00:37:45 -0500 Subject: Is my mail getting through While this is a test to see if my mail is getting through it gives me the opportunity to say thank you to everyone who is participating. For years Tariqas is the closet thing besides WH I have had contact with that spoke to Sufism. I was living on an island which did not have the rich homogenous level of Orders which I have in the past been used to. Since moving to Wisconsin that has changed. It was, however Tariqas and WH where I had and continue to draw a great deal of inspiration. I know that from time to time I was a member in the family of Tariqas which disturbed. My natural inclination for verbosity and just plain rambling has been hard to put up with, and my tenacity as well is not always easy. Recently I received a great deal of mail which has come close to chastisement. All I can say is that I know two things 1) I know that since this report has come from several sources there must be accuracy to it, and 2) after having reviewed my messages I still do not know where I have abused of offended. This simply tells me what I already know which is that I am blind and that I have a long ways in regard to growth. I take this as good and bad news. Good because growth is always positive. Bad because lessons always come with a price and sometimes the cost is very painful. I am learning that being joined in a group means that from time to time feelings will get hurt. What you can count on me for is to always be there for my friends to work it out. I will not take my marbles and go find another circle to play with. I have in the past been asked by people I have loved to no longer participate. This has occurred more in my youth then recently. But I am continually reminded that I am a character. That given my actions participation is at risk. And I do and say what I do and say as thoughtfully as I know how. So it is not that I am thoughtless, it is mostly that I am afraid my blunt words are sometimes as tactless as the child who called out to the Emperor who had no clothes. The distinction is that a child can get away with that. Given that I live with myself I know I am not easy to live with. I also know I have to love and even forgive myself to forgive anyone else. Iconoclasm of ideals comes very easy for me which is what I think attracted me to this philosophy which want nothing more then to cling o the illumination, valor and beauty of Allah. And I thank God for the great friends and associates I have made through this Group. I thank God for the inspiration which you are which I receive daily. And I thank God for the contribution each of you make to me daily as I face what I have to face in the mirror which is sometimes radiant and sometimes dark, and last of all I thank God for the fact that we can communicate regularly regardless of the geographical difference. Further I deeply thank those who administrate and I extend what ever service I may ever be able to extend or may be requested to extend to this server. God Bless each of you. Your Brother. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: AMBER K WILLIAMS <102064.3531@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Jul 96 02:07:50 EDT Subject: tendencies Dear Lily, Part of the story of Sylvia Plath is that she loved her husband and her poetry. As she became more successful, he left her. She was alone with two small children and little money during a cold, cold London winter. I don't know if that is marginal or more common between men and women than we would like to know. Anyway, it is ironic that now Ted Hughes is only or mostly known as Sylvia Plath's husband. I have always been interested in her. She is a symbol of some kind to me. Iram ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 06:12:30 -0700 Subject: Friday's Rumi I'M LOYAL to the image and beauty of my beloved please speak of that image only and say no more whenever you're with me speak only about the generosity of candles the generosity of the sugarcane and say no more don't speak of any suffering show me the treasure that waits at the end of the road if you're ignorant of the path then say no more last night i was in flame my beloved saw me and said "i'm here at last don't tear your clothes lament no more" i begged my beloved to understand my condition to sense my fear my love said "when i'm present you must seek no more i'll whisper the words of secrets into your ear and you must promise not to answer just nod your head and say no more the face of a sweetheart has penetrated your heart the tenderness is all there is your journey is the journey of love sense it to the depth and say no more" i asked if the face belongs to a human or that of an angel "neither this nor that sense it but say no more" i said if you don't identify this for me at once my life will be shattered "be shattered at once but say no more you're dwelling in a house filled with images and dreams pack all your belongings move out but say no more" you're simply expressing the experience of God i said to the beloved "yes this is the answer but for God's sake say no more" RUMI, ghazal number 2219, translated March 1, 1992, by Nader Khalili. tanzen ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 11:29:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Is my mail getting through Good morning, dear Jabriel! >What you can count on me for is to always be there >for my friends to work it out. I will not take my marbles and go find >another circle to play with. Thank you! >But I am continually reminded that I am a character. And thank you for this too, my friend! Where would we be without character! :) love ya! carol ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:35:50 -0400 Subject: coats as egos Dear Michael, you said that it does not much matter wether an ego is developed or not but "What matters is ones attachment to one's personality." That is exactly what they teach you in any school of art and in sufism the highest art is the art of personallity. The first thing you are taught is to make a paintiing and then throw it away, do not become attached to it. As a sufi once said, "you aren't who you think you are" and so one is constantly trying to uncover who one thinks one is (so that you can in this way facilitate the act of change), maybe that is why sufism is called unlearning. Tanzen, i think it was, shared with us the seven planes of ego, each plane more incompassing than the next, untill the highest plane is all encomapssing. So, sufis, far from being coatless, as some metaphors might suggest, wear lots of coats, continually shedding them for a coat of greater capacity which to the outside observer may seem to be less and less of a coat. Near the end they wear a coat of rags, i guess it is the coat composed of all thier cast away coats, they have kept the essence, untill finally they wear only a coat of perfume, and then they are gone and only the perfume is left. Then we burn inscense reminding us of this perfume which is the coat of god. Some think that the ego is bad and we ought to get rid of it, but others think that the coat or veil is most valuable not for what it keeps one from seeing but for what it reveals. The difference is that some think the coat is the cover of the man and others that it is the revealer, to the revealers the coat is an art, to the coverers the coat is an illusion. In some ways i think sufism does look at things in both of these ways .... it is one of the unique things about sufism, i think Asha ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 12:33:34 -0700 Subject: Re: coats as egos ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Michael, > you said that it does not much matter wether an ego is developed or not but > "What matters is ones attachment to one's > personality." > That is exactly what they teach you in any school of art and in sufism the > highest art is the art of personallity. Greetings Asha, I've observed how some people seem to be glued to the personalities. The PRIDE themselves on how they are. Thing "I am this way." or "I am that way." and I like being the person who is 'this way' or 'that'. For example: I am the the kind of guy who is into cars; I am the kind of person who always keeps her office neat; I am the kind of guy is who is Alway on time for meetings; I am the kind of guy who never misses a prayer. Now of course this kind of attachment or love of ones personality creates an un-flexable person. It creates all sorts of problems leading to unhappiness and suffering. For example, the guy who prides himself on being "on time" may have complained about others who have been "late". Now he finds himself driving his car recklessly in order to get somewhere "on time". What is at risk? Would it really matter if he were late? No. At risk is his own prideful image of himself as a man that is always "on time". My teenage daughter has an idea of herself as a person that "does not like fish". Now she has only tried fish-sticks, but that does not matter, she prides herself on being a person that "does not like fish". She will not reverse herself! At this point, her ego-personality is actually controling her sence of taste. Her ego is controling her perception. This is the situation that we are all (with maybe a few exceptions) in to greater or lesser degrees. When the nafs are brought under control, perception opens up to new experience, even the enjoyment of fish. Cheers, - -Michael- ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 04:11:58 +0800 Subject: Reading the Quran without knowing the Prophet Assalamualikum, It was mentioned as an advice, that reading the Quran without knowing the Prophet, will be meaningless (or something like that). I remembered that this advice was given from a Shaykh to his students. Can someone explains more in detail about this advice or the rules of reading the Quran to get its proper meaning? I read the Quran, and I don't think I really know Prophet Muhammad (saw) although I read the Hadith collections (mostly from Imam Nawawi's Riyadus Salihin). Somehow my feeling is, I get to know better Prophet Muhammad (saw) thru my reading of the Quran. This is because, when reading the Quran (althouh translations -- my Arabic is minimal), it is as if I am reading the verses as they are being revealed to the Prophet (saw). So the Quran (to me) is more intimately revealing the Prophet (saw). So, to the one who post the original advice, and to the brothers and sisters in the list, I'll be grateful if you can explain the true meaning of that advice. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:15:03 -0700 Subject: Re: coats as egos Hello, folks! Michael Moore wrote: > > ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > > > > you said that it does not much matter wether an ego is developed or not but > > "What matters is ones attachment to one's > > personality." > > That is exactly what they teach you in any school of art and in sufism the > > highest art is the art of personallity. > > I've observed how some people seem to be glued to the personalities. > The PRIDE themselves on how they are. [...] > Now of course this kind of attachment or love of ones personality > creates an un-flexable person. You two make some good points, really good points... it came to me years ago how I had the same thoughts over-and-over again, day-after-day... it then came to me to question just what thoughts are made of, how they come about. My conscious mind would have never figured it out. What I was seeking after was the same instrument that I was using for the investigation! Face-to-face, the fireworks light, explore into a blaze! > When the nafs are brought under control, perception opens up > to new experience, even the enjoyment of fish. Yes, spectrum of life broadens... The first step in getting control came when I began to have "guilt" for all the harm I was doing around me, to friends, animals, insects, plants, rocks... this is when I really went nutz, woodsong-style, and started to change my ways, hugging and talking quietly to everything and everybody, treating everything and everybody the way I wanted them to treat me, with love... all this came about through the blessings of Allah, The Beloved, permitting knowledge of self, Self. It seems to start by simply opening the "heart" and a desire to change our ways, no matter what those ways are presently. Fixation likely is the perfect symbol, perfect word, for Lord Sloth, which many call Shaitan or the devil. Peace, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:15:44 +0100 Subject: Re: coats as egos > >> When the nafs are brought under control, perception opens up >> to new experience, even the enjoyment of fish. > >Yes, spectrum of life broadens... The first step in getting control came when I >began to have "guilt" for all the harm I was doing around me, to friends, >animals, insects, plants, rocks... this is when I really went nutz, >woodsong-style, and started to change my ways, hugging and talking quietly to >everything and everybody, treating everything and everybody the way I wanted Tanzen, talking about insects, I mean loving them. When I have a cockroach (ms) I usually kill it, because I don't want them swarming all over my house, food, bed. I guess my love is underdeveloped? We kill virius that bring harmful bacteria don't we and well, I want to let the bugs live, but I end up not having any compassion for them. What is wrong with me I wonder. >them to treat me, with love... all this came about through the blessings of Allah, The >Beloved, permitting knowledge of self, Self. It seems to start by simply opening >the "heart" and a desire to change our ways, no matter what those ways are >presently. Fixation likely is the perfect symbol, perfect word, for Lord Sloth, >which many call Shaitan or the devil. Opening the heart and desiring to change...Yes, Yeh like letting go of old ideas, being willing to step out into new territory.Peace, Also, Kaffea Lalla. >Peace, > >tanzen > > ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 19:13:30 -0700 Subject: Re: coats as egos Jacquie Weller wrote: > >everything and everybody, treating everything and everybody the way I wanted > > Tanzen, talking about insects, I mean loving them. When I have a cockroach (ms) > I usually kill it, because I don't want them swarming all over my house, > food, bed. I guess my love is underdeveloped? We kill virius that bring > harmful bacteria don't we and well, I want to let the bugs live, but I end > up not having any compassion for them. What is wrong with me I wonder. Kill the bug and then say astagfurallah. (Forgive me allah). We know we have bodies and bodies have needs. One of those needs is to avoid bugs. We do not throw, allah throws. To the degree that "we" are throwing; - to that we say astagfurallah. - -Brother Michael- ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 19:22:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Reading the Quran without knowing the Prophet maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > > Assalamualikum, > > It was mentioned as an advice, that reading the Quran without knowing > the Prophet, will be meaningless (or something like that). I remembered > that this advice was given from a Shaykh to his students. Can someone > explains more in detail about this advice or the rules of reading > the Quran to get its proper meaning? Hello maarof, I believe that it was me who mentioned this, so I will reply. Actually, I don't totally understand it myself but it was advice from my Shaykh. So, I asked him, "How can I know the Prophet (saws)." And his reply was that first I must love the Prophet. It seems like a catch-22 to me (paradox). But I think that he was talking about expansion of the heart. Now this was my Shaykh's advice to me. It may not be appropriate for you. I don't know. Best Wishes, - -Michael- ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:47:45 -0400 Subject: Re: coats as egos Assalaamu alaikum: >> ASHA101@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > "What matters is ones attachment to one's personality." >Tanzen wrote: >My conscious mind would have never figured it out. What I was seeking after was >the same instrument that I was using for the investigation! >Face-to-face, the fireworks light, explore into a blaze! Synchronicity follows: After last night's fireworks, I began reading "Guidebook to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." A slice of the intro seems to have a direct connection to the coat discussion: "We learn about the non-symbolic (whether presymbolic or postsymbolic) in and through symbolic activity and its product (which is also its common medium), language. Learning about geeting beyond rational, symbolic activity requires doing the very thing that is to be gotten beyond." "Similarly, if there is some value in the process of letting go (and not simply in the subsequent state), this would seem to imply that what is let go has at least a utility value. The process could not occur without it. Put simply, we can't stop thinking if we haven't been thinking; we can't fall silent if we haven't been speaking." When I first encountered the philosophy and vocabulary of sufism, I thought of the "nafs" as a unclean coat. My goal was to overcome this lower aspect of my self, to remove the coat, and reveal the more beautiful coats within. Yet, now I'm thinking/feeling, these coats, all aspects of one's personality, are gifts from Allah, and therefore not "naturally" evil, or dirty. These outer coats are necessary. When one acknowledges them, looks and investigates them, one learns. And it's as if each layer/level, teaches one about the next. Am I making any sense here? Okay, lets drop the coat metaphor/simile and switch to - a ladder. My lower self, my outer coat, my attachment and desire, can be represented by the lower rungs of the ladder. Are the lower rungs any less valuable than the higher? Certainly, living on the higher rungs indicates I am closer to my goal. But the journey began with that blessed first rung. Praise Allah for the gift of APPARENT AND TEMPORARY: attachment, separation, division, mutiplicity, disobedience, etc... It's like - searching for an Ox which has never gone astray. Still searching, Even with the knowledge that there is nothing/everything to search for, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:53:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Love/Kill the bug? Brother Michael wrote: >Kill the bug and then say astagfurallah. (Forgive me allah). >We do not throw, allah throws. To the degree that "we" are throwing; - to that we say astagfurallah. Beautiful!!! I was contemplating buying one of those face mask things tomorrow in order to demonstrate my love for the microscopic. Thank You Brother, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: tendencies On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: [snip] > > I have no idea whether or not this is useful. I am also not sure whether > constructing lists of useful and un-useful topics would be useful. I have > noticed in email discussions that the most un-useful sounding post can > catalyze the most useful responses, so I would hesitate to construct > boundaries besides the widely accepted 'netiquette' ones (no insulting, > adverstising, etc.) You are right. I made a mistake in attempting to influence the list on this issue. Yours, Habib ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: We need a new archive Assalamu alaikum. Insh'Allah, does anyone have the capability and interest to set up an archive for the tariqas list? Now that there is a digest, this should, Insh'Allah, be relatively easy -- all you need is a whole lot of space! (On a WWW or FTP site). Ceci, our gracious host for so many years of the archive at ftp.lysator.liu.se, has not been in touch with me for some time. If you can help with this, please contact me by direct email to habib@world.std.com rather than sending info to the list. Thanks!! Habib ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:42:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Archive I did not know this wasn't an archive, what is an archive? K. Lalla. And for some reason when Michael said Kill the Bug, it just struck my funny bone. It was like he was rescusing me from a termite eaten ship. I know I have a weird sense of humor. But Astagfurallah... ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:47:15 +0100 Subject: Re: coats of egos Sorry Tanzen for the detour. You were talking about the changes that occur. I just was thinking about cockroaches today and well, I know it wasn't the point of your well done topic. Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 12:18:32 +0800 Subject: Re: Reading the Quran without knowing the Prophet On Fri, 05 Jul 1996, Michael Moore wrote: >maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: >> >> Assalamualikum, >> >> It was mentioned as an advice, that reading the Quran without knowing >> the Prophet, will be meaningless (or something like that). I remembered >> that this advice was given from a Shaykh to his students. Can someone >> explains more in detail about this advice or the rules of reading >> the Quran to get its proper meaning? > >Hello maarof, >I believe that it was me who mentioned this, so I will reply. >Actually, I don't totally understand it myself but it was advice >from my Shaykh. So, I asked him, "How can I know the Prophet (saws)." >And his reply was that first I must love the Prophet. >It seems like a catch-22 to me (paradox). But I think that he was >talking about expansion of the heart. > >Now this was my Shaykh's advice to me. It may not be appropriate >for you. I don't know. > >Best Wishes, >-Michael- Thank you Michael, One way I see about it is the Shahada (the affirmation of there's no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger). But, there's something incomplete in my undersstanding about that advice, and that's why I post the question. Insha-Allah, I'll find that answer to complete my understanding. Thank you again. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 00:40:49 -0400 Subject: Re: coats as egos Dear Brother Michael, >Kill the bug and then say astagfurallah. (Forgive me allah). >We know we have bodies and bodies have needs. One of those needs >is to avoid bugs. We do not throw, allah throws. To the degree that >"we" are throwing; - to that we say astagfurallah. What does this mean, "throwing"? I have a much different "take" on this than most people. But i'm not sure it would be tactful <> to present that view here. Maybe if i understand what you are saying, i can see that maybe we are not so far apart? I say "forgive me Allah" all the time! :) But it's usually after i do something that i know i should not do... love, woodsong ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #48 ****************************