From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:33:18 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 23:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #47 tariqas-digest Thursday, 4 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 047 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 10:43:31 +0100 Subject: Re: Independence Day Oh Woodsong, The tree, The eagle, The burying of the hatchet, Peace, all so beautiful and deep in the heart. Thankyou...The Indian speaks great messages to my soul and a common river runs through my heart. What a great thing, the White Buffalo has come again. All Nations Pray for the Great Peace. This is a sacred time. Love Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 13:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: International Islamic Unity Conference Assalamu alaikum. The following information is from a flyer -- Insh'Allah, several members of the list are involved in the conference and can give us a lot more information. International Islamic Unity Conference Westin Bonaventure Hotel Los Angeles, California Auguest 2-4, 1996 1-800-400-8112 (310) 836-1208 Email: asfa@world.std.com Homepage: http://world.std.com/~asfa/Conf/conference.html Launching: "International Day of the Orphan" In light of the life of the exemplar of orphans, Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) Dedicating a day of universal support for the helpless children, left without parents and homes through war and oppression. Lectures and Workshops on many Islamic political, religious, and social issues. Qur'anic recitations. Poetry recitations: qasidas & oratory in English, Urdu, Bengali, & Arabic Bazaar for Islamic cultural items. Purpose: This conference, sponsored by As-Sunnah Foundation of America and American Muslim Assistance, will, insh'Allah, complement similar sincere efforts of other concerned Muslims to bring about unity among Muslims of North America. One of the key issues of this conference will be to explore the role and relevance of the authentic traditional schools of thought (madhahib) which have been guiding the Muslim ummah since its inception. We hope that, by the grace of Allah, this conference, with its rich diversity of Islamic scholars and activities, will strengthen the bonds of brotherhood, lover, tolerance and respect for our diversity, replacing the current trend toward extremism and narrowness, which a sincere following of the blessed guidance of the Sharia'ah and Sunnah of the last Prophet (pbuh) will make possible. ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Sufi (fwd) From: Dwija@aol.com Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com (emout09.mx.aol.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16845; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 17:55:10 -0400 Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA11003; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 17:55:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 17:55:49 -0400 Message-Id: <960702175549_346844286@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: CWoodsong@aol.com, tariqas@world.std.com, wh@seas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: Sufi ditto on the sufic enjoyment of Harold and Maude, and as Rumi says, "Sing, Sing Loud!" I read once that a sufi is someone who says YES! to life....and love I would add.....so one more from the master of rumination, "Love is the last thirty pound bale. When you load it on, the boat tips over." Thinks for the bales. sincerely, Junaid ------------------------------ From: Bob King Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Babies without Personality On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > > I think that babies are born with very little in the way of a > personality. (Moms may ignore this last statement, Your baby > has a perfect little personality.) I only mean to say that > babies have not established patterns of behavior based on > prior experiences. The don't have a constant internal dialog. > They are to a large degree still un-created pure potential. > They only have little personalities that say, 'I need something' > no... not even that, more like 'need on / need off'; they > have not developed 'I' yet. > > I guess babies are people that have not put on a coat yet. Michael, thanks for the clarification. A complex topic. Just recently I re-listened to a Ram Dass tape in which he talks about a Hindu view that personality is completely inherited and pre-existing in babies, just waiting for the neural nets to develop enough to allow for the patterned emergence. Who knows? -- and the babies ain't talking! :) I'm not sure what to make of theories of personality on an abstract level. I think about that level -- but in any case, for me anyway, I experience personality as something I need to go through to get to some other state, not something I can just sort of go around or take off. Others cite different sorts of experience of personality, so maybe this speaks once again of different people having different approaches/paths/experiences to greater realization, and choosing theories accordingly (i.e., personally). Anyway, afternoon musings. . . Best wishes, Bob ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Hodgkins Disease (fwd) Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:36:49 -0700 From: Alan Phillips X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Hodgkins Disease References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iram, I publish the CASEWORK Newsletter in which persons may receive healing assistance from subscribing Silva Method graduates around the world (about 200). If you would be interested in being listed in this newsletter, or would like more information about CASEWORK, please send me an email note to that effect. There is no charge for this to "Case Subjects" (persons desiring healing assistance), and we are always looking for more "Case Subjects." Better and Better, Alan Phillips, Director Human Development Services, Inc. a 501(c)(3) non-profit corp. ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: The IDEA of nature On Wed, 3 Jul 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > Salam to Tanzen and Michael > > Michael, you wrote: "The creation by it's very nature/definition must be > perceived as seperate from the creator. And anything > separate or apart from the creator must be flawed > because only the creator is perfect. This gives rise > to the notion of the 'Fallen Universe'. > > This reminds me what Asha wrote a few days ago about "complaining to God". > I wonder why one complains about anything? Is it about something unfulfil, > or one sees imperfection of things, or one sees oneself as an imperfect > creation, and thus complain this imperfection to the creator. > > But the word "creator" and "creation" might play a trick here. "A perfect > creator" and "imperfect creation" is a paradox, because it implies that > the creator is imperfect. > > The only way to "correct" this perception is to think that the creation > is perfect, but it is man's imperfection to see the perfect creation. Assalamu alaikum. It seems to me that there is a difference between "perfect" and "necessary." Let's imagine that someone flunks a test because they didn't study. Perhaps they needed to learn the hard way that they needed to study. Thus, perhaps the fact that they flunked the test was necessary. But, it might have been better if they had been at a stage where they did not need to learn this lesson the hard way and/or they exercised their free will to do what they needed to in the first place. >From my current perspective, the world as we know it is hardly perfect. But the horrible things that occur (war, poverty, destruction of the eco-system etc. etc. etc.) may be necessary lessons that we need to learn in the process of growing up. If we learn the lessons, Insh'Allah, we grow up to be a mature adult species. If not, we die. Yours, Habib ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:55:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Babies without Personality Hello, Friends! >Michael, thanks for the clarification. A complex topic. Just >recently I re-listened to a Ram Dass tape in which he talks about a >Hindu view that personality is completely inherited and pre-existing in >babies, just waiting for the neural nets to develop enough to allow for >the patterned emergence. Who knows? -- and the babies ain't talking! :) Sure they are! Babies talk... as long as we're listening! My 'babies' talked to me from the womb, even before they were born! Both being so very different, it was easy for me to appreciate their 'personalities'. >I'm not sure what to make of theories of personality on an abstract >level. I think about that level -- but in any case, for me anyway, I >experience personality as something I need to go through to get to >some other state, not something I can just sort of go around or take off. this makes sense! :) ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:29:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Sing my Friend ... >Wazifa Canon Alhamdulillah! Thank you, dear Kaffea Lalla! Sister, your Light is burning me! :) Take hold my hand and let us raise our voices... in harmony! Blessed Be! love - carol ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: lion and palm On 16 Feb 1996 aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au wrote: > Dear tariqas friends, > I would like to receive your comments on the, significance and correspondences, > (quotations welcome )regarding the two symbols of the lion and the palm tree > within the sufic tradition. > Can anybody illuminate me on this > An example of this appears on the cover o the Journal of Near Eastern Studies_ (JNES). In researching this informally I have found that the palm tree represents the tree of life, and this tree is guarded by winged lions (On the _JNES_ cover art the lions' wings hang over the tree, strongly evoking the wings of Isis motif or suggesting the winged-heart of Hazrat 'Inayat Khan [r. A.]) Books on Sumerian and Mesopatamian mythology will yield more understanding. Wa Salaam Talat ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 13:08:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Babies without Personality Hello, everybody! Bob King wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > > > > I think that babies are born with very little in the way of a > > personality. (Moms may ignore this last statement, Your baby > > has a perfect little personality.) I only mean to say that > > babies have not established patterns of behavior based on > > prior experiences. The don't have a constant internal dialog. > > They are to a large degree still un-created pure potential. > > They only have little personalities that say, 'I need something' > > no... not even that, more like 'need on / need off'; they > > have not developed 'I' yet. > > > > I guess babies are people that have not put on a coat yet. > > Michael, thanks for the clarification. A complex topic. Just > recently I re-listened to a Ram Dass tape in which he talks about a > Hindu view that personality is completely inherited and pre-existing in > babies, just waiting for the neural nets to develop enough to allow for > the patterned emergence. Who knows? -- and the babies ain't talking! :) Gosh, don't we believe in, know what is called instinct, the subconscious mind? Different words are used in difference disiplines to label such. Instinct is that aspect of a being that comes with birth, even before birth, even before conception, and is a product of living, of mcuh evolution. Within the mind known as instinctive we find all the memories of our past, all the memories of the present, and all the knowledge of how the body works, how to keep it working, how to heal itself, how to control all the cell, bone, tissue functions, blood flows... Here's a short summary of the three integral minds that belong to human beings (each level of matter has a similar set, thus the link between all levels, thus the love): Superconscious -- High Self, as called by Polynesian Kahunas, those peoples migrating through India from Egypt coming from Atlantis; also called by them, "the god"; Carl Jung referred to such as the collective unconscious; intuitive mind; called Lord of house by many sufis, also Wine; Jesus' "Father in heaven"; gnosis; guidance; behind High Self stands Absolute (God to many people); Great Spirit of many native Americans; and the future. (Jay Em's "unconscious" or "the physician".) Conscious -- middle self by Kahunas; inductive reasoning; logic; associated with our senses, false and real ego; the "head"; and the present. Subconscious -- low-self by Kahunas; memories of past doings, all that has happened to the entity; emotions and instincts reside here; authority for well-being of physical body; some deductive reasoning; your closest neighbor; sufi "nafs", the Friend, the "Heart"; aspect of "Commanding Self" of sufi Idries Shah; the past. After the conscious mind has obtained control of self, and Self is contacted, one can consciously contact subconsicous for data of the past, and follow nudges of superconscious to align our will with our fate. O Lord, send Thy peace, which is perfect and everlasting, that our souls my radiate peace, that we Thy children may breath, think, speak, and act in harmony with Thy Will. Amin. tanzen ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 16:14:03 -0400 Subject: a perfect discussion There are two meanings to the word perfect, "just right" and "finished" (complete). Just like a garden, this world is not finished, it is on going and in it's on-going it is "just right." That is the pleasure of the Gardner, and in this pleasure S/He is complete. A ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 13:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Babies without Personality asalaam-u-aleikum I'm with Woodsong, they arrive with amazingly different personalities. There is much postulation that the pregnant woman's state and behavior during pregnancy has a major impact on this, but I doubt this is so. Birth order is also said to have an effect and does to some extent. But my first son (like a firstborn because his sibling was already 10) was very easily overstimulated and demanding from his first days, before his younger brother arrived. To this day he struggles with this (he is 10). It is his jihad and it is truly inspiring to witness. My second son is the complete opposite. But I was under far more stress during the second pregnancy. My daughter was very happy and calm as baby. As a small child she was a terrible brat because I was too young, self absorbed and without advice to know how to deal with her. Now that she has grown up she has reverted to the personality she was born with. Lily ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: tendencies asalaam-u-aleikum In reply to a post by Habib Rose which I accidentally deleted- The Bell Jar is the seminal work of the poet and author Sylvia Plath, who during her life was mostly known for being the wife of Ted Hughes. Some time following her suicide, during the feminist years (some credit her work as being pivotal to feminist thought of the 60's and 70's) she became well known for articulating the frustrations of the isolated, marginalized woman of the post war era. Please someone correct me if this is wrong or if I have left anything important out. I cited her as an example of how women have felt trapped in relationships as well as men. So in this context perhaps you can see that my aim was not to promote stereotypes, but rather the opposite - to uncover the rocks of what appear to be and let all the bugs and crabs scurry out. I have no idea whether or not this is useful. I am also not sure whether constructing lists of useful and un-useful topics would be useful. I have noticed in email discussions that the most un-useful sounding post can catalyze the most useful responses, so I would hesitate to construct boundaries besides the widely accepted 'netiquette' ones (no insulting, adverstising, etc.) Lily ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 05:35:02 +0800 Subject: Re: Spirituality and abuse On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: > >asalaam-u-aleikum > >Thank you Hamza for your keen observations on the nature of abusers. > >This being a proper dinner party and all, I will limit my comments and say >only that I have experienced this. The following observations are well >supported by the bell curve. > >After they strike, abusers like to bring flowers and kind words and try to >minimize the event. > >They do not own any responsibility for their actions, it is always someone >else's fault - the victim, or perhaps someone in the past who abused them. > >The successful rehabilitation is only likely for those who feel remorse >and want to change. They are in the minority. > >The community members tend to look the other way - "Did you see something >happen here? I didn't see anything. I like to maintain my friendships >with all involved". > >Only a very few will take a risk and speak out against it and in support >of the victim. These are the lovers of Truth. > >Like everything else in this life, a microcosm of the larger picture, is >it not? > >Lily > Assalamu-alaykum Thanks for reminding me, that behind these words, are real people. I pray that Allah always be the guidance in our actions. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: painful tales asalaam-u-aleikum To me the really important thing about the story is that the Prophet (pbuh) sent the woman away many times. She could have gone free, but insisted on being punished. She did this over and over again. She could see something that we cannot see. She saw it as her right to be punished in this way, and in the end even the Prophet was unable to deny her this right though he was loathe to grant it. He acknowledged the stature of this rare woman who insisted on accountability for her actions, and would not allow anyone to rebuke her. I would not even be able to confess, knowing what would result, let alone return for this fate over and over again. I fool myself into thinking that somehow I will get away with whatever it is and Allah (swt) won't notice. Lily ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 06:11:38 +0800 Subject: Re: The IDEA of nature On Wed, 03 Jul 1996, Frank Gaude wrote: >maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: >> >> The sun is at a perfect distance, so that life can exist here on Earth. > >Come on, dear maarof! The sun could be all "over the place" and still we would have >life here on earth, just as we have. Perfection implies "no other"... But I do >accept your understanding in this case of perfect, such is a good way of "seeing". >I like it, I like it! > Hmmm ... if the sun just slightly out of place, I wonder will there ever be tanzen and maarof arguing in the first place? Most likely I'll be the perfect manure in Asha's tale of the Gardener :) [...] > >God, this place is perfectly beautiful. But this will pass... If it won't pass, it won't be perfectly beautiful. >Peace, >tanzen salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 15:11:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Babies without Personality Hello, dear Lilyan! You wrote: > > I'm with Woodsong, they arrive with amazingly different personalities. [...] > Now that she has grown up she has > reverted to the personality she was born with. It is so wonderful to listen to mothers tell of the intimate details of their observations regarding birth of their children and the details of their growth. Being father and grand father four-times over I feel so blessed to know mothers... Praise the Lord, praise the Lord of my Lord. My own feelings, much coming from intuition, indicate that each child prays to be born into a particular situation, to a particular set of parents, and each has a unique past, a unique set of experiences, and a unique set of adventures to live through: permiting God to know self, Self, through us. Aaah, perfection is at hand! And as you know, all prays are answers! Sometimes the answer may be "no", "yes", or "wait a bit" until a bigger picture is seen; but all prayers are answered. I guess at some point we would have to define just what are "prayers"... I leave that task to the mothers of the world. Lilyan, thanks for being, tanzen of tahoe ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 15:17:27 -0700 Subject: Re: a perfect discussion ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > > There are two meanings to the word perfect, "just right" and "finished" > (complete). Just like a garden, this world is not finished, it is on going > and in it's on-going it is "just right." That is the pleasure of the Gardner, > and in this pleasure S/He is complete. My dictionary shows no less than 11 major entries for the word PERFECT... every word is defined through the use of other words, so we remain in the world of duality, contrast... The realm of Clear Light is beyond words... Peace, tanzen ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 19:01:40 -0400 Subject: Re: painful tales >I would not even be able to confess, knowing what would result, let alone >return for this fate over and over again. I fool myself into thinking that >somehow I will get away with whatever it is and Allah (swt) won't notice. > >Lily Wow! Thanks for your words regarding this story, Lily. I can now see it a bit more clearly. love, carol ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 20:38:11 -0400 Subject: Tao Hello, Dear Ones! It's much too hot to be outside today... and it's soo Beautiful here under the palms with you... (oh, this world of duality! :) <>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>><>> Empty your mind of all thoughts. Let your heart be at peace. Watch the turmoil of beings, but contemplate their return. Each separate being in the universe returns to the common source. Returning to the source is serenity. If you don't realize the source, you stumble in confusion and sorrow. When you realize where you come from, you naturally become tolerant, disinterested, amused, kindhearted as a grandmother, dignified as a king. Immersed in the wonder of the Tao, you can deal with whatever life brings you, and when death comes, you are ready. ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ ---_ The Master keeps her mind always at one with the Tao; that is what gives her her radiance. The Tao is ungraspable. How can her mind be at one with it? Because she doesn't cling to ideas. The Tao is dark and unfathomable. How can it make her radiant? Because she lets it. Since before time and space were, the Tao is. It is beyond /is/ and /is not/. How do I know this is true? I look inside myself and see. Tao te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 23:49:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Personal and public discussions Dear Habib, >The most important thing is the willingness of the members of this list to >take a chance and share with one another. Thank you for helping me to see >that. Thank you for taking my feelings into consideration! I really do appreciate being here... and appreciate you for creating this "place". with love, carol ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #47 ****************************