From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Aug 25 12:19:32 1996 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:54:45 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #108 tariqas-digest Tuesday, 20 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 108 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lilyan Kay Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 18:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Websites on Southern Sudan asalaam-u-aleikum I have read enough eyewitness reports by journalists who are not representing church organizations to convince me that things are very bad there. Recently, when similar challenges were made regarding the issue of slavery, a pair of journalists travelled there and bought 2 people for $500 each. This appeared in a wire service story with photos of the slaves. I too have known Muslim Sudanese who confirm the ongoing horrors there. They would never do so publically, however, as they must fear government retaliation on family members who are still there. I don't see what difference it makes whether or not someone is Christian if they are speaking the truth. Are we supposed to reject all reports on the oppression of Muslims because they come from Muslim sources who therefore must have an agenda? Where do we draw the line here? Do we refuse to acknowledge the corruption of the Saudi regime because they are Muslim and we have to make 70 excuses? What about Saddam, isn't he a 'born again' Muslim? Or is it OK to condemn them because it is primarily Muslims who are the victims? Do we defend and remain friendly with Muslim men who have abused and even murdered their wives? Molested children? I have unfortunately seen this happen on more than one occasion, even in the "Islamic" press. Making excuses for one's brother does not apply in such a situation, where there are innocent victims crying out for help who must be protected. If Muslims are responsible for wrongdoing as they are on a micro and macro scale in many parts of the world, then as lovers of al Haqq we must be *more* upset and obliged to take action than when non-Muslims are. To deny al Haqq while turning one's back on those who suffer is certainly shirk in the most profound sense. Lily ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 21:53:54 -0400 Subject: Little Thanks As I took a short moment to watch television today, I seen something that brought tears to my eyes a program about a young man in the special olmpics born without hands and feet, but who broke three world records for the special olmpics. I had to stop and thank ALLAH for the limbs he has given me even though I wear knee braces, take pain pills, take steroid shots and use different sources of spiritual & natural healing what this young man has had to endure far out weighs any part of the good or bad days I may feel I've had through the past 10 years. So what did this experience bring me too the Quran; S; AL-Rahman, verse;70 & 71, Where-in (are found) the good and the beautiful, Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny. LETS REMEMBER ALLAH AND REMEMBER HIM MUCH AND WHEN THE BILL COLLECTORS CALL AND THE RENT IS DUE, Just read this for strength I know I will. P.S. So the next painful day I have shall continue to bring me closer to the rope of ALLAH and a young man who was sent with a light. Your Brother & Friend Sh. Jomo-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: Abdkabir Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 02:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: Ibn Ata'Illah's Book of Wisdom Sufi Books in NYC has copies of this book from various publishers. On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 AbilKhayr@taconic.net wrote: > Paulist Press will not be reprinting their edition of the above title > before January at the earliest. Does anyone know of a publisher with an > edition currently available? > > ------------------------------------- > Blessings, > AbilKhayr > AbilKhayr@taconic.net > 8/18/96 8:55:16 AM > ------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 14:29:05 +0800 Subject: Re: Not so friendly Assalamualaikum, Michael Moore wrote: >(snip maarof's posting re: Independence Day) >We must ask, what do we mean by 'your country'. Do we mean the thousands >of people who work towards humanitarian aid. Do we mean my Grandma? >Do we mean the thousands of American Muslems? the Jews? the Christians? >How about the millions who just struggle to go to work day to day >and raise children and pay taxes. Perhaps we mean the millions of >blacks or latinos or orientals? Maybe we mean the American Military >or the Government policies which are made by the eleit few. > >You see, all of this is 'my country' but only a small portion of this >is the part that is 'not so friendly'. I am an American who is >smiling and reaching out a hand to all peoples of the world. I am >not reaching down my hand and I am not reaching up my hand >(except to allah swt :-) > >My wish is that all the people of the world will see the real enemy >as 'thirst for power over this world'. Now some people in governments >examplify this satanic thirst but there are others in governments >and perhaps even in military branches who are fighting fire with >fire. They are protecting and their jihad is a holy one. But it >is sometimes difficult to know which is which or indeed if there >are any at all. > >If we could see this then the real American people could hold >the hands of the real Iraqui people and the Jewish people >could take the hands of the Palestinean Muslem people. >Not the power mongers, standing behind flags of nations >or the religious pretenders who justify their hatred behind >behind the names of their gods. > >Well maarof, I know that I am not telling you anything that >you don't already know and I expect that you agree with me. >Maybe I just need to pray that I can learn to accept that >people may not always like me; justified or otherwise. > >salam >-Michael- > Assalamualaikum Michael and friends in Tariqas, I stayed for about six years in "your beautiful country" in a small farm town in middle of that big continent, back in the 70's. My fondest memories are the Fall season and the magnificent blue sky. From my limited experience, I find that there was (maybe still is) a special attitude of "friendliness" of the average American toward "others" -- different I guess, from my experience with Europeans (I spend some time in Germany). Europeans (more appropriate Germans) tend to keep a "defensive distance" from others (things/people not Germans). South-east Asians -- that's me :) in general, we tend to camouflage our awkward way of not knowing how to interact with "strangers" with too much unnecessary laughter (as pointed by a former member of this list -- Martin). There are various levels and spheres of relationships between people of different places in this planet, and the most one-sided is government/military relationship in which my opinion is "your country" is "dictating terms" to others. This opinion is based on what I read and understand. I hope I'm not being awkward and thought as disturbing the peace of this little pond of ours. I certainly appreciate and hold high the people-to-people friendship offered by this forum. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Jim Bier Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: not so friendly-other others Kaffea Lalla, Thank you for another inspiring post. Please continue to hold and share these thoughts and realizations. They are the Breath and Voice of the Beloved. A Catholic bishop spoke of a seamless garment of a respect for life, and the Buddhists give standing to all sentient life. There is a secular Deep Ecology which requires the human species to give much higher standing to the rest of creation and to walk much more lightly on the earth. It is understandable that the social roots of the middle eastern desert religions would take for granted that efficient grazing animals were provided by a loving God so that God's favored creatures may use them for food out of necessity. But might it not be time for us also to consider the ethical conclusions of our spiritual brothers and sisters and also not be considering the rest of creation, especially those sensate creatures so much as 'other' that we can kill and destroy at will. If kill we must to eat, it should be with a profound apology, gratitude, respect both to the creature killed and to our Benefactor who provided it for us in our need. In most cases a big mac doesn't give us an opportunity for this kind of relationship. talk about getting carried away! tentatively and respectfully, jim On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > We are citizens of a planet > The illusions of our separateness divide > We are humans with the same blood running > Through our veins. > If we attack each other > We attack ourselves > No one truly owns the planet or a country > or even a small acrea. > It is only God's land, and lent to us > Governments may divide it up > And call it east, west, south, north, > This country and that country > But in One God, in Allah, in all the names > Is only One Love to know and universally > To give from this love that which is not > Purchased by anyone. > What is it we have to fear, military or might, superpowers > or aliens, anyone who is different. > Is fear our own projection of how we see what we do not understand. > All the walls ever created, were not built by God. > If God is love then this is what tears down separations and fear > And those who are hungry will be fed, and those who are sick will > Be tended, and those who are homeless will be sheltered and those > Who are suffering will not be alone, For love will be reaching out > It's hands through brothers and sisters everywhere without selfish > considerations, and demanding something in return. > The only war we need to fight is poverty, selfishness, us verses them, > and violence. > Enough for my soapbox. I get carried away. > Love Kaffea Lalla > ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:38:35 PST Subject: Re: not so friendly-other others Dearest Jim, >If kill we must to >eat, it should be with a profound apology, gratitude, respect both to the >creature killed and to our Benefactor who provided it for us in our >need. Amen. Give thanks to Allah... and to our brothers/sisters-- the animals and plants.. give thanks for the Sun, the rain, the farmer. Give thanks for the relationship of ALL things... thanks be to Allah for our breath, our life, and even our pain... our food, all. Thanks be to Allah for ALL things... 'good' and 'bad'. Thank you. May the Blessings be! mitaquye oyasin.... all my relations... Thank you, brother... for reminding me. much love, carol ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:39:22 PST Subject: Re: Not so friendly Hello maarof, >There are various levels and spheres of relationships between >people of different places in this planet, and the most one-sided >is government/military relationship in which my opinion is >"your country" is "dictating terms" to others. This opinion is >based on what I read and understand. yes. I have much difficulty with this. "My country" does so much that i disagree with. But i am not 'my country'. When my country kills, is it /me/ doing the killing? At times i believe it is. And it hurts my heart. Then, i recognize something /else/... knowing that i am responsible for /my/ actions and thoughts. I cannot allow my thoughts/actions be influenced by what is percevied as /acceptable/ by the majority. I must be aware of what i do, and hopefully even why i do it. To be lost in despair -- that 'my country' would do this or that... what good is that? I hope, pray, that i can change MYSELF... judge only MY actions (as well as my inactions). To align my small will, with the Will of God... Thy Will be done. I must be responsible -- but only for my faults... to judge only myself.... all things will be made 'right'... through /personal/ action. >I hope I'm not being awkward and thought as disturbing the >peace of this little pond of ours. I certainly appreciate >and hold high the people-to-people friendship offered by >this forum. you are not a disturbance to this Beautiful pond.... you are a water lily! :) >salam salam ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 11:54:42 -0400 Subject: being friendly to one's self My take on the sufi aproach to this problem of whether one's nation is friendly or not: The first two steps in knowing who you are, are first to be able to admit to all the impressions that you have of yourself and be able to remove them a little ways away. Some would call this just simply getting a little distance on yourself, some would say this is to be able to see yourself from another point of view. Some would say this is to simply be able to see your self without your blood pressure rising, like it does at a football match. Second to be able to see that behind all of your actions there is a cause, some would say that it is to be able to see the psychological aspect of one's self, some would say to be able to see how one's self is reflected in the very make up and objects of one's home (so to speak). To that extant we can see ourselves as individuals, as person's of a nation and a culture, and we can even see oursleves as person's of the planet, and perhaps more. Someone asked if sufism is here to also produce a wonderful world of peace and economic harmony and etc. And I would say yes, and that this is the first step. But as yet many do not see that there is a psychological component, that something is transpiring through thier own actions. And even more fundamntal we have trouble admitting to our own impressions of ourselves. To do this is what would be called surrender in Islam. Ultimately, surrender is to be able to be deeply friendly to one's own self. Until then one cannot possibly see that the universe (Allah Him/Her/Itself) is friendly. One lives in an unfriendly universe, and that is why the sufi speaks of discovering the friend - it starts with discovering one's own self as friend, it begins and ends in surrender. It begins in knowing who you are, proceeds to knowing that you aren't who you think you are, and ends in knowing who you really are - love, Asha ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:43:01 +0100 Subject: being friendly to one's self clipping majority...Asha said One lives in an unfriendly universe, and that is why the sufi speaks of discovering the friend - it starts with discovering one's own self as friend, it begins and ends in surrender. It begins in knowing who you are, proceeds to knowing that you aren't who you think you are, and ends in knowing who you really are - ------ These three thoughts about 1. knowing myself 2. finding out I'm not who I thought I was 3. finding out who I really am. This summarizes things for me in this adventure called life. Also the fourth important point it begins and ends in surrender. Thankyou Asha, Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Jim Bier Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 12:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: not so friendly-other others On Mon, 19 Aug 1996, Carol Woodsong wrote: > Dearest Jim, > > >If kill we must to > >eat, it should be with a profound apology, gratitude, respect both to > the > >creature killed and to our Benefactor who provided it for us in our > >need. > > Amen. Give thanks to Allah... and to our brothers/sisters-- the animals > and plants.. give thanks for the Sun, the rain, the farmer. Give thanks > for the relationship of ALL things... thanks be to Allah for our breath, > our life, and even our pain... our food, all. Thanks be to Allah for ALL > things... 'good' and 'bad'. Thank you. May the Blessings be! > > mitaquye oyasin.... all my relations... > Thank you, brother... for reminding me. > > much love, > carol > Carol, yes, it is the indigenous peoples'- most familiarly the native American- sacramental attitude toward creation as expressed in mitakuye oyasin - all my relations. It's on a t-shirt with a picture of the earth that my wife, jerryanne, gave me, and that I like to wear. I still wonder though about our ability to see that it is primarily the echo of a tribe's own voice or florid gratitude when the tribe hears God/Allah proclaiming that tribe as the favored/chosen of God/Allah and still we act as if we are the chosen/favored species of God/Allah and seem to forget that God/Allah cares for the rest of creation in all its particulars. That we might use it to serve our need in gratitude doesn't mean that we can exploit and trash it for our greed under the smile of the Beloved Creator. enough on the soapbox for me now :-) tentatively and respectfully, jim ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:31:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Not so friendly Assalamualaikum, > > There are various levels and spheres of relationships between > people of different places in this planet, and the most one-sided > is government/military relationship in which my opinion is > "your country" is "dictating terms" to others. This opinion is > based on what I read and understand. Yes, you are very much correct on this point. I guess I just get a little defensive when people say 'your' country. It makes it sound like they are saying 'You are responsible' for these evil deeds. If it is not ones intention to attach responsibility then one could name the country. Say 'the USA does such-n-such' rather than 'your country does such-n-such'. By saying 'your', you are making an attachment. By saying 'the USA' you are leaving it up to the recipient to make the attachement to himself as he sees fit. Now I am not saying that I am not responsible and I am not saying that I am. The sad fact is that I do not know. For me to take any action in my current state of ignorance would be, at best, ineffective. No doubt some people will take this ('I cant fix the world until I fix myself') attitude as a cop out. I do however think that it is my job to 'work' on myself first. In the mean time I prefer not to talk in terms of 'my country' and 'your country' but rather 'our world'. > > I hope I'm not being awkward and thought as disturbing the > peace of this little pond of ours. I certainly appreciate > and hold high the people-to-people friendship offered by > this forum. I have enjoyed this discourse and am grateful to be made aware and reminded that there is something to be seriously considered! How will we sleeping US citizens ever be awakened to the reality of the USA if somebody does not speak up and speak up loudly? I do read the MSA news, so I am a little bit aware that there are alternative points of view, radically different that the 'official' propaganda that is passed off as news in this country. (The MSA news is a free on-line news letter that presents the news from a middle-eastern/Islamic perspective. It is a real eye opener. Ask me for subscription details.) Salam - - brother Michael- ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:08:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Not so friendly Maarof wrote: > There are various levels and spheres of relationships between > people of different places in this planet, and the most one-sided > is government/military relationship in which my opinion is > "your country" is "dictating terms" to others. This opinion is > based on what I read and understand. I can sympathize with Maarof's impression that the U.S. may often seem to be "dictating terms" to (I would have said "bullying") other countries. I've lived in three other countries and each of them had to deal with this sort of treatment from time to time. New Zealand did the best job of standing up for its own beliefs and social objectives when it refused to allow nuclear-armed U.S. Navy ships into its harbors. The country suffered later for doing that, but the people there take a lot of pride in the fact that they dared to do it and survived. Michael J. Moore responded: >Now I am not saying that I am not responsible and I am not >saying that I am. The sad fact is that I do not know. >For me to take any action in my current state of ignorance >would be, at best, ineffective. No doubt some people will >take this ('I cant fix the world until I fix myself') >attitude as a cop out. There is some connection between feeling powerless and feeling justified in doing nothing. The power elite (whereever they may be) will nearly always cultivate that impression in the general populace -- it is in their best interest to do so. They want to be left alone to do "their thing". Anyone who is feeling powerless should seek out a group with similar interests, where they can help out and get involved even if it is only in a very small way. Groups are incredibly more powerful than individuals. It is not necessary to be knowledgeable about the subject area - -- there are many ways to contribute: accounting, publishing, fund raising, etc. Many groups are effective not because they know so much about the subject area but simply because they are watching. (I will now get down of _my_ soapbox and try to be a humble grain of sand again.) Wa salaam, Craig ------------------------------ From: "Ivan J. Rumi" Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:16:32 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: I'm So Glad !!! Hello Friends !!! I've been never posting anything here before....I was just enjoying to your talkings and reading new poem of Rumi everyday... Thanks to Frank for his help :)If this possible can I find all that Frank sent before I joned this mailing list ??? I think I lost a lot of Interesting things :( Now I have two beautiful books of Rumi...I have to tell my big thanks to my friend Bryan that helps me everytime I need his help ...I couldn't even dream about it here...and I want you to share with me my gladness ( And Big thanks to my friend Bryan one more time) I just want t send Rumi's poem here it is : Listen To The Poet Sanai, Who lived secluded:"Don't wander out on the road in your ecstasy.Sleep in The Tavern." When a drunk strays out to the street, children make fun of him. He falls down in the mud. He takes any and every road. The Children follow, not knowing the taste of wine, or how His drunkness feels.All people on the planet Are Children,except those free of desire. God Said, "The world is a play, children's game, and you are the children." God speaks he truth. If you haven't left the child's play, How can you be an adult ? Without putity of Spirit, If you're still in the middle of lust and greed and other wantings, you're like children playing at sexual intercourse. They wrestle and rub together, But it's not sex ! .......... That's all for now..I know this poem is not all that I can read.But I like this one :) If you want I can post some poems for those who don't have it ( I did ) Thank you for being !!! Love to you - -Ivan ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 07:15:24 -0700 Subject: RUMI 1197 IF YOUR BELOVED has the life of a fire step in now and burn along in a night full of suffering and darkness be a candle spreading light till dawn stop this useless argument and disharmony show your sweetness and accord even if you feel torn to pieces sew yourself new clothes your body and soul will surely feel the joy when you simply go along learn this lesson from lute tambourine and trumpet learn the harmony of the musicians if one is playing a wrong note even among twenty others will stray out of tune don't say what is the use of me alone being peaceful when everyone is fighting you're not one you're a thousand just light your lantern since one live flame is better than a thousand dead souls ghazal number 1197, translated January 18, 1992, by Nader Khalili tanzen ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:58:46 +0800 Subject: Re: Not so friendly >In the mean time I prefer not to talk in terms of >'my country' and 'your country' but rather 'our world'. > "our world" sounds nice! Its actually a beautiful world from above. -- maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:15:17 +0800 Subject: Re: Not so friendly >>There are various levels and spheres of relationships between >>people of different places in this planet, and the most one-sided >>is government/military relationship in which my opinion is >>"your country" is "dictating terms" to others. This opinion is >>based on what I read and understand. > >yes. I have much difficulty with this. "My country" does so much that i >disagree with. But i am not 'my country'. When my country kills, is it >/me/ doing the killing? At times i believe it is. And it hurts my >heart. > >Then, i recognize something /else/... knowing that i am responsible for >/my/ actions and thoughts. I cannot allow my thoughts/actions be >influenced by what is percevied as /acceptable/ by the majority. I must >be aware of what i do, and hopefully even why i do it. To be lost in >despair -- that 'my country' would do this or that... what good is that? > I hope, pray, that i can change MYSELF... judge only MY actions (as well >as my inactions). To align my small will, with the Will of God... Thy >Will be done. I must be responsible -- but only for my faults... to >judge only myself.... all things will be made 'right'... through >/personal/ action. > Thanks Carol. Sometimes ago a Belgian woman came to a mosque and prayed for world peace. She's a Muslim and something she said that didn't mean anything to me then, but I see it differently now. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:54:31 +0800 Subject: Re: Websites on Southern Sudan On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 12:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Habib Rose wrote: "I was told of a Hadith to the effect of: When your brother is the victim of oppression, you help him by fighting with him against the oppression. But, when your brother is the oppressor, you help him by helping him to stop being the oppressor. If someone is familiar with this Hadith, and insh'Allah, could share it, it would be appreciated." Assalamualaikum, The hadith was accepted sahih (true sayings of the Prophet) by Bukhari. I don't have the proper English translation, but roughly: "Anas (ra) reported: The Messenger (saw) said: 'Help your brother whether he is the opressor or the opressed.' A man asked: O Messenger, I can help him if he is opressed. But what is your opinion, if he is the one who opressed? How can I help him?' The Messenger replied: "You stop or prevent him from being the oppressor. That is the way to help him." The hadith used the word "zalim" which also means "cruel". In case of Sudan, or other Muslim countries at war, it is Muslims duty to bring the warring side together and negotiate peace. I'm not sure what good is it if we are only interested in reading which side opressed the other. salam maarof ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #108 *****************************