From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Fri Aug 16 11:16:26 1996 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 10:04:54 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #104 tariqas-digest Thursday, 15 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 104 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gmtn@mail.comet.net (Green Mountain School) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:28:41 -0500 Subject: for carol woodsong 2 as-salaamu 'alaykum, further answers to carol woodsong. i will quickly go to your most recent questions just to clarify, inshallah, a few points and then try to return to at least one of your original questions. i am sorry i have not more time but i am in the midst of editing books {for english speaking middle schoolers on quranic sciences} and must attend to that so this answereing of questions will have to take place over time. carol asks, > okay. This is a bit confusing to me. It seems that all of sufism > focuses on this "IT" -- this realization... could i assume this is the > same as what is known to Buddhists as 'enlightenment'? At-Oneness... no. "it" in this sense refers to the first step which is understanding, as i wrote earlier, who or what Allah is, who your are, why you are here, what is going on and so forth. this is not enlightenment per se. it is the first step in being truly a human. by human we mean not a re-active being but an active or perhaps co-active being. co-active in the sense that once you have a real answer (and by real i mean one which satisfies you at the deepest {current} level of yr. being} to some basic questions you can cease re-acting and begin acting or at co-acting or maybe co-operating is a better phrase. there is a purpose to our life individual and collective. if this purpose is not known there is no possibility of really being. it is rather like having a car you don't know how to operate. you kind of get it. turn on the engine do a few things but somehow it remains illusive. perhaps a computer might be a better metaphor. you can kind of intuit your way around but then you run up against things you can't finesse and can't really figure out and so there you are operating sort of but also rather baffled as to what it is supposed to do and what its for and so on. the first step then is getting to know and understand the true purpose of life. as i said this answer or solution has to hit you at the deepest level of your being and you must be convinced that it is true for you beyond any doubt. like ice cream is sweet or salt is salty or water slakes thirst. everyone is born knowing all of these answers. as the prophet, blessings of Allah and peace be upon him said {translated and paraphrased slightly}, "everyone is born on the natural form {fitrah} of surrender {islam}. their parents then raise them to be jews or chistians" he was speaking in the context of his time and it is possible that he might say today "their parents raise them to be jews, christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists etc} the point being that the pure natural state, the original state of being, the fitrah is lost and when that is lost one becomes something qualified by a name rather than a reality. what is important in this thread is the concept of the fitrah, the pure natural state which everyone is born with and in. {aside here: this is 180 degrees from original 'sin' which is another subject) now how can one 'remember' the original state of one's being this is the problem and this is what i mean by 'it' rather than enlightenment which is a quantum state to which i will return later, inshallah, in another answer. one gets it from one who has it. i wrote a poem to my first teacher many years ago which expresses this somewhat. "oh murshid! in the garden of my being you see the flower of perfection." the shaykh, the murshid, the guide living in the state of the fitrah sees all things and all beings from that state. seeing from that state the shaykh sees in you your own perfection and, perhaps in a glance, or a word, or a nod or by whatever subtle means causes you for a second to see your own natural state of perfection. you see that for a second, a minute, a lifetime, an eternity and seeing it you know the real truth of your being if only for that instant. having seen it you are never nor can you ever be the same. this doesn't mean that there is no 'work' to do. indeed it is the beginning of real 'work' for you now realise what there really is to 'do' and that is to become what is that you always were but have forgotten or mis-placed. that then brings us to your point of "breaking the knees" when you realise your natural state, your fitrah {we can now stop using the word it because by 'it' what we mean is this fitrah} you see {at least i can tell you i sure did} just how much there is in the way of really being. this in sufi terminology are the 'nafs' which are the impediments at various levels standing in the way of pure natural being. breaking the knees means sitting a lot with the shaykh {hence breaking the kneees because, as in certain zen schools there is a proper way to 'sit' with one's teacher} and experiencing or absorbing or recieving 'lessons' or making his tea or whatever it is that the shaykh uses to teach you with and that differs from shaykh to shaykh. it means sitting quietly while he {and there are she's but again this is not gender business but simply my trying to write this thing down} meets with his guests, or reads the paper, or talks on the phone or whatever it is he does. this is the learning process and it takes until he is convinced that you now know how to co-operate. about your point what to do about those who don't get 'it'. what to do? look around. sad to say most people don't get it. point is you can't do anything for them unless you have got 'it' your self. if you have got it then you, as a co-operator, may 'do' something but there are so many people in so many circumstances and there is no way you can do everything for everyone. and the point is also that we are talking here about human to human transmission. this is not tv, radio, magazine, book kind of stuff. this is direct contact between human beings, eye to eye, heart to heart, sould to soul. this is the barakah that is not virtual and cannot be replicated, duplicated, cloned but must be experienced directly and always humanly. it is at the heart of the human exchange and why we are human at all. look at Jesus, peace be upon him. he certainly had 'it' but in his time he touched but a few and of those he touched not all remembered. and even now when his message has spread thruout the world there are millions who hear it and never get 'it'. what to do? look at the prophet Nuh {Noah} peace be upon him, the rain was falling, the world was flooding. he invited one of his sons time after time to get aboard the ark and the son refused seeking ever higher peaks to climb until there were no further peaks to climb. Nuh, peace be upon him, was a prophet and yet he could not convince his own son. what to do? this is the same with all the messengers and prophets, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them. if it is true with them and they are the best of us and all of the shuyukh {pl of shaykh} are but dust beneath the feet of the prophets and messengers, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them, what can be 'done' really? we do what we can do within the realm of co-operation. i trust this begins to answer these questions to some small degree. i hope to continue if you wish. Allah knows best. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:33:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Fatwa declares Goethe a Muslim (fwd) Hello, folks! James Brody wrote: > > >[...] > >"The Creator has no connected aspect to His creation" I find strange > >based on my experiences... anyone care to discuss the meaning of how > >Allah (Divine Being) is apart from the creation? > > > >[...] > To paraphrase or quote imperfectly a passage by Ibn Arabi from the > "Sufi Path of Knowledge" by Chittick (a passage which astonished me > when I first read it and keeps on bearing gifts): > > Just as the mirror (whose surface we do not see, but we see the > reflections) is the locus of disclosure of those things reflected in > it, so the Real (al-Haq) is the locus of disclosure of the possible > things! Thanks to all regarding views on "connected aspect". Someone sent a line from al-Qur'an: "Wherever you turn, there is the Face of Allah." Qur'an 2:115. I went to my Ahmed Ali translation and found: Qur'an 2:115 To God belong the East and the West. Wherever you turn the glory (vajha) of God is everywhere: All pervading is He and all-knowing. The Arabic "vajha" means surface or face. So God covers everything with "face", with Glory. That's what we "see" if we have eyes to see. It's clear to me that how we perceive God is our individualized "station", from the fully abstract to the complete personal. Being a nuclear physicist, now retired, I've gone from the mathematically abstract to the deeply personal and back again many times, and can "see" both at present. My personl God is at the core of my Heart, and that God is in every drop of my blood, in every cell, is Mind, and is Spirit. Spirit is architect or planner, mind is contractor or builder, and manifestation is that built. But there's more, the non-manifest, and that is a side of God of which I know nothing. All experiences come through my senses, flooded from within, and flooded from without. All passions come from what I have "seen". So I test these passions to their distruction. Education and learning is about passion! Thank you all for being as you are, a connected aspect of my living God. God, this place is beautiful! Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor Date: 14 Aug 96 12:10:35 Subject: Wild musings of Sayeed In our quest to find all answers we are posing more questions The more we travel, the more we need to cover I am trying to travel upwards not just forwards Why shouldnt we just accept the power of Beloved the compassion, and thunder, and bliss If I accept any other teacher besides the Beloved I remain just a student We are nothing but sum total of our experiences at any given moment and the moment keeps changing Sufi in me speaks, But , Alas! Nothing lasts but the moment actions therein determine quality of flight to my Beloved Fi Aman Illah Sayeed P.S:- Everybody thanks Everybody for Everything ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 11:08:52 +0100 Subject: Hello You probably don't know me but simply enjoy your name. I see the sun and the moon in this name, gold eagle of day, and black velvet panther at night under the moon. In the light of day, and in the silence of night, the same whispers of and echos of Love from, in, around, and centered. Ah, we are not above or below, just connected by Love. Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 03:03:28 -0700 Subject: God, this place is beautiful frank gaude wrote: > God, this place is beautiful! You said it just like the ending of a sci-fi movie (forgot the title): "God, it's full of stars..." I hope I got 'it' right :) - -salam (maarof) ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:32:34 PST Subject: Re: Wild musings of Sayeed >In our quest to find all answers >we are posing more questions and become 'posers' along the way? "I am this." ... "I am that." >The more we travel, the more we need to cover >I am trying to travel upwards not just forwards bear's heart, with eagle wings... >Why shouldnt we just accept the power of Beloved >the compassion, and thunder, and bliss and quiet joy arising.... >If I accept any other teacher besides the Beloved >I remain just a student to remain a student... always. learning to love.... more. always more. >We are nothing but sum total of our experiences at any given moment >and the moment keeps changing there is nothing else but this moment. now. there is no thing now, but God. God, help me! >Sufi in me speaks, But , Alas! Nothing lasts but the moment >actions therein determine quality of flight to my Beloved > >Fi Aman Illah >Sayeed > >P.S:- Everybody thanks Everybody for Everything this humble shadow of one is thankful for all You are, All that is. blessed by and through this place of Beauty.... thankyou. ------------------------------ From: rt Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 04:44:20 +0800 Subject: angel from desert On Tue, 13 Aug 1996, Craig Johannsen wrote: >On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Steve H Rose wrote: > > > Assalamu alaikum. > > > > Why don't we discuss something useful -- something that we KNOW > > something about, like: > > > > How many angels can stand on the end of a pin? ;-) > >Hey, everybody knows the answer is 42! >The mice spent a long time computing it. >What kind of question is that anyhow? > the right question for our hermit from the desert to show what he has learned. welcome back, craig! ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:48:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Wild musings of Sayeed Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor wrote: > > In our quest to find all answers > we are posing more questions > > The more we travel, the more we need to cover > I am trying to travel upwards not just forwards > > Why shouldnt we just accept the power of Beloved > the compassion, and thunder, and bliss > > If I accept any other teacher besides the Beloved > I remain just a student > > We are nothing but sum total of our experiences at any given moment > and the moment keeps changing > > Sufi in me speaks, But , Alas! Nothing lasts but the moment > actions therein determine quality of flight to my Beloved Thanks, Sayeed... in return: We See What is, Work ever for the Best, Aware of the Worst, The while...LIVING each minute to its FULL... Delaying not, For yesterday has vanished and Tomorrow has yet dawned... THIS MINUTE is all of LIFE we ever truly possess. --------------------------------- He who exalts in being Alive for the sheer fun and joy of IT... FOR, his cup is full and runneth over! Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:50:00 -0700 Subject: Re: God, this place is beautiful maarof wrote: > > frank gaude wrote: > > > God, this place is beautiful! > > You said it just like the ending of > a sci-fi movie (forgot the title): > > "God, it's full of stars..." > > I hope I got 'it' right :) > > -salam (maarof) How would I know; ask A N Durkee or woodsong. Love, harmony, and beauty, now, tanzen ------------------------------ From: maarof Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 05:33:40 +0800 Subject: Al-Hikam (Ibn Ata'Illah's Sufi Aphorisms ) Assalamualaikum, I've read and re-read Kitab Al-Hikam (the Malay/Indonesian translation) and it is a tremendous experience to read br. A N Durkee's posts, who is very familiar with Shadizilli tariqa. I hope A N Durkhee will continue to post to the general list of Tariqas. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 19:10:44 +0100 Subject: Peace The cyclone of difficult circumstances spun around and round One friend had brain surgery and a biopsy, and I turn my focus to the center where pain dissipates in the one solution of Love. I let go of limited ways of seeing and percieving and being. Allah, La illaha illahu... Then I was staggered with fear of not having enough to survive, And then I know beyond doubt that Allah is always enough. So in the center of cyclones, threats, or fears Is the God of Love and Peace and Cheer. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:27:02 +0700 Subject: Independence Day Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear all, Yesterday, I saw this movie "Independence Day" with my Sufi teacher. After watching the movie, he seemed to be dissapointed with it. He said that ET(Extra-Terrestrial)s are actually friendly and peaceful creatures who have greater understanding of God, and had made contact secretly with some humans for thousands of years. He believe that Harut and Marut mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah 102 were ETs who came to the Babylonians long ago and taught a secret knowledge to humans. Rumi was one of the inheritors of this knowledge. But the movie gave a bad, cruel, and evil character to the ETs. Any comments? Wassalamu'alaykum, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 23:57:02 +0100 Subject: Re: Independence Day >Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. > >Assalamu'alaykum, > >Dear all, > >Yesterday, I saw this movie "Independence Day" with my Sufi teacher. >After watching the movie, he seemed to be dissapointed with it. He said that >ET(Extra-Terrestrial)s are actually friendly and peaceful creatures who have >greater understanding of God, and had made contact secretly with some humans >for thousands of years. He believe that Harut and Marut mentioned in Surah >Al-Baqarah 102 were ETs who came to the Babylonians long ago and taught a >secret knowledge to humans. >Rumi was one of the inheritors of this knowledge. > >But the movie gave a bad, cruel, and evil character to the ETs. > >Any comments? > > >Wassalamu'alaykum, > >Michael Roland > >---------- Thats interesting Michael. I often wonder why aliens are always dipicted as bad characters. I saw the movie also, and it is the same theme most science fiction stories, except ET the one that said home, home, home. Anyway I never seen anything extra terestrial, except this net just joking. Kaffea Lalla > ------------------------------ From: dlb@severn.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:00:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Independence Day Michael Roland writes: Yesterday, I saw this movie "Independence Day" with my Sufi teacher. After watching the movie, he seemed to be dissapointed with it. He said that ET(Extra-Terrestrial)s are actually friendly and peaceful creatures who have greater understanding of God, and had made contact secretly with some humans for thousands of years. He believe that Harut and Marut mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah 102 were ETs who came to the Babylonians long ago and taught a secret knowledge to humans. Rumi was one of the inheritors of this knowledge. But the movie gave a bad, cruel, and evil character to the ETs. It is a serious mistake to believe that any science fiction movie, or most science fiction books, attempts to speculate about what ETs are truly like (or, for that matter, what the future will truly be like). Science fiction tales are the fairy tales of the West, a society that is so wrapped up in its love of technology that it has forgotten how to learn from these stories of wisdom and relegates them to children's books. A prime example is the (now canceled) series "Above and Beyond" last season, which was primarily a war story rather than a science fiction story. Using aliens rather than people as villians allows the audience to engage in intolerance and hatred without feeling guilty. So I would reassure your teacher that Independence Day was not claiming any knowledge about ETs. They were just making up boogie-men. Any resemblance between them and real ETs is purely coincidental, and not a statement about what anyone really thinks about aliens. Dave Barton <*> dlb@wash.inmet.com )0( http://www.intermetrics.com/~dlb ------------------------------ From: dlb@severn.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 07:07:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Independence Day Jacquie Weller writes: Thats interesting Michael. I often wonder why aliens are always dipicted as bad characters. I saw the movie also, and it is the same theme most science fiction stories, except ET the one that said home, home, home. Anyway I never seen anything extra terestrial, except this net just joking. Movies do not always depict ETs as bad characters. Aside from ET (which you mention), there is Starman, The Man Who Fell To Earth, The Day The Earth Stood Still, and many others. Science fiction is just the twentieth century West's fairy story. ETs are mirrors in which we reflect what we want to see for a particular story, just as fairies and djinns are. They may be good or bad, depending upon what is needed for the story we are telling. None of this has anything to do with true speculation about what might be true of alien races, which we have not seen. Some science fiction *books* attempt to do some serious speculation, with interesting results. I have seen none of this reflected in movies as yet. Dave Barton <*> dlb@wash.inmet.com )0( http://www.intermetrics.com/~dlb ------------------------------ From: Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor Date: 15 Aug 96 9:09:07 Subject: Re: Independence Day Assalama Alaikum; Brother Michael Roland wrote: > Yesterday, I saw this movie "Independence Day" with my Sufi teacher. > After watching the movie, he seemed to be dissapointed with it. He said that > ET(Extra-Terrestrial)s are actually friendly and peaceful creatures who have > greater understanding of God, and had made contact secretly with some humans > for thousands of years. He believe that Harut and Marut mentioned in Surah > Al-Baqarah 102 were ETs who came to the Babylonians long ago and taught a > secret knowledge to humans. >Rumi was one of the inheritors of this knowledge. Your Sufi teacher might be right, Carl Sagan also suggests that some of the Hindu God's with super human qualities were acquirer's of celestial knowledge. What we do not understand we condemn. Fi Aman Illah Sayeed ------------------------------ From: Sayeed Siddiqui/scnm/Stentor Date: 15 Aug 96 9:23:57 Subject: Re: Independence Day - Al Baqarah 102 Assalama Alaikum; Brother Michael Roland wrote: > Yesterday, I saw this movie "Independence Day" with my Sufi teacher. > After watching the movie, he seemed to be dissapointed with it. He said that > ET(Extra-Terrestrial)s are actually friendly and peaceful creatures who have > greater understanding of God, and had made contact secretly with some humans > for thousands of years. He believe that Harut and Marut mentioned in Surah > Al-Baqarah 102 were ETs who came to the Babylonians long ago and taught a > secret knowledge to humans. >Rumi was one of the inheritors of this knowledge. This is translation of Al-Baqarah 102 102. They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon: the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah.s permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew! Fi Aman Illah Sayeed ------------------------------ From: gmtn@mail.comet.net (Green Mountain School) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 10:08:13 -0500 Subject: carol woodsong 3 as-salaamu 'alaykum. dear carol here is a further part of the answer to some of the questions you raised. itrust that it will be helpful in whole and part. {a.n.d.} carol woodsong wrote asking, >"Ahhh!! But, this incorporation... this LIVING is most important? So...why >the focus on "enlightenment"? Is it possible to 'break the knees' as a >way TO 'realization of God'?" As must be clear from the previous two postings in answer to questions you have raised there is no focus on 'enlightenment' as such but rather there is, in sufism, a focus on experience or tasting {dhawq} as it is only by direct experience or tasting that one can know the whys and wherefores of our existence. this is called 'iman or what might be translated as faith, belief, safety, security, protection and so forth. It is cognate with the word which has come into english as "amen" which is used at the end of prayers. It should be said that this is a secondary step the primary step being surrender which returns us to a most important question you also raised: >"I have absolutely no undersatanding of Islam -- but i do have an intense >desire to "surrender to Allah".... TELL ME how to do that!" i touched on this lightly by mentioning earlier the necessity of the realisation that there is no diety save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and specifically the final Messenger of Allah and mercy to all the worlds {rahmah li-l-'alamin}. As i hope must be coming more clear the sufic dimension or flavour within islam has to do with direct experience. Thus we say that the first step to surrender is the direct realisation that this statement called the shahadah is true not because you read it somewhere, not because your parents or teachers told you that it was true but because you 'know' that it is true. Earlier i mention that this might come as a result of a sudden awakening or as a result of a long process and i mentioned the necessity of a pure mind and a clean heart which, as you must be aware, are the most often the result of often intense 'work' on the self which may be undertaken in many different ways some of which are 'internally' motivated and others of which the result of 'external' events. This is the blessed fusion of both being chosen and chosing to be chosen as {in english translation} "Allah guides to his Light whom He chooses." or the equal meaning also contained within the same Arabic words {and an indication of the subtlety of Qur'anic language} "Allah guides to His light {the one} who chooses {to be guided}." {24:35} for in another ayat "If my Lord does not guide me then I shall be of those who are astray" {6:78} And now here we jump to a very important prophetic saying {hadith} which says {in English translation} "He who knows his self knows his Lord." Here we touch on a mighty secret about which volumes have been written. It relates to what was written yesterday about returning to the true nature or the fitrah of your own being. The truth is that we all know the Truth and that we have known this Truth from before time had a beginning which is to say in pre-eternity. I cannot go deeply into this at this moment but there is another sign {'ayat} in the Qur'an which comes from the Chapter "The Faculty of Discernment" and reads {in english translation} And when your Lord took from the children of Adam, from their spines, their seed and made them to witness of their selves "Am I not your Lord ?" They said, "Yes! we bear witness." This lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection, "As for us we were not aware." {al-A'raf 7:172} Everyone knows the Truth from before the beginning, everyone knows the Truth now and everyone will know the Truth again when there are souls are returned to their their bodies at the resurrection. What is so important here is to know that you know or perhaps better to say to remember {dhikr} what you already knew and might have forgotten due to "how" you were raised and other circumstances which have 'covered over' {kafir} this basic Truth. This dhikr is a very important part of the life of the Muslim and even more important in the life of the Muslim who has entered the Sufi way for it points to one of the ways that it is possible to know the truth of your being. The fundamental knowledge is incorporated in the Arabic equation {for this is the highest form of mathmatics} laa 'ilahaa 'illa-llah muhammad rasul allah" which roughly {and sadly without nuance} means in english, "there is no deity save Allah - Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah." Perhaps you might ask how can that be pre-eternal knowledge since Muhammad came after Adam but I then refer you the prophetic saying {hadith}, "Before Adam was between the clay and the water I was." This is to begin to touch on the true nature of the Prophet, blessings of Allah and peace be upon him. But here I will have to stop for today but inshallah will pick up from this point tomorrow as this is a very deep subject which needs a lot of space to open out. Allah knows best wa salaam from a servant in the house of the shaykh abdullah noorudeen durkee A. N. Durkee Green Mountain ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #104 *****************************