From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Fri Aug 9 06:21:23 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:21:13 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #90 tariqas-digest Thursday, 1 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 090 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:38:46 +0800 Subject: Re: Woman On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, "Michael J. Moore" wrote: >Michael J. Moore wrote: >> >>. Even Rumi, or was it Ibn Arabi who said >> that there are 1,000 negative attributes, 1 is mans and 999 >> are womens. I'll find the exact quote if anybody is interested. >> >Even though nobody responded to this, I'd like to make a correction >because this does go into the archive. > >In his Book of Counsel for Kings, al_Ghazali is explaining >all that a woman has to suffer because of Eve's misbehavior >in the Garden of Eden: (he lists 18 punishments) this is >number 15) - the fact that merit has one thousand components, >only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are >attributable to men. > >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 > > Assalamualaikum, I prefer Hamka's interpretation about the story of Adam and Eve. In his Tafsir Al-Azhar, Hamka pointed out that the Quran never mentioned specifically that our mother, Eve, was to be blamed on the incidence in the Garden. Hamka's use of words, "our mother", I think puts the story closer to our hearts and in a proper pespective. Hamka wrote, Eve only obeyed her husband in her action, and both repent for their sins. IMO, this anti-Eve (or anti-woman) stance showed that Iblis (Satan) not only deceive our parents, Adam and Eve, but us, their children. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 06:13:32 +0800 Subject: Re: sexist goodby On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Thomas McElwain wrote: [...] > Again, Salaamun hiya hattaa matla'i l-fajri. In the meantime, >remember to do salaat, saum, zakat, and if possible meet me at my place in >Mecca. I would not have commanded those things if I had not meant them. By >the way, I'm getting tired of always hearing Surata l-Qadr in prayers. Why >doesn't someone use Surata l-Baqara just once? It's my favorite. > Loving court chister and God, Ali Haydar Al-Kalbi > Assalamualaikum, Since it is your favourite sura, I think it's appropriate to ponder this beautiful prayer at the end of Quran's longest sura: Our Lord, do not take us to task if we have forgotten or slipped up. Our Lord, do not lay any obligation upon us such as You placed on those before us. Our Lord, do not overbudden us with more than we can bear. Pardon us, forgive us, and show us mercy. You are our Protector, so support us against disbelieving folk. It'll be nice if we meet in Mecca! Insha-Allah. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:16:34 +0100 Subject: What is Balance I think a stringed instrument only works harmoniously and sounds beautiful if the tension on the strings are just right. When the strings are stretched too tight they break, when the strings are too loose the music does not come, it only squeeks or groans whatever the case will be. The same for me, my efforts may be tight, streatched, too stiff. I'm working too hard, using too much power, or whatever. If I get too lax, using no tuning, not doing anything, not remembering God, doing Dhikr, thinking there is to be no training or anything, then the strings are too loose, and nothing is produced that brings music. Could meditation and Dhikr help me not to be too tight or loose. Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Date: 01 Aug 96 16:41:52 GMT Subject: Mother Eve and us (Was: WOMAN) Until recently, when I attended a 3 day workshop on interfaith dialogue, (specifically on the relationship between Catholics and Muslims, presented by fr. TomMichel, a Jesuit who has been for years the Vatican representative in the Council for Christian/Muslim Dialogue), I was totally unaware of the fact that Muslim do not have a notion of original sin as the Catholics and Christians.I thought, how liberating! And now I am told that in spite of this, women( not only Eve) still have to bear the crushing weight of the consequences much more than man... Where is the consistency? May it be that al Ghazali's passage means something different from the obvious? If not, I feel rather disappointed, I shall have to contact HERIM for this, maybe SHe will consider illuminating me on this matter... On the topic of useless dualities( and duplicities) again...can I paraphrase the great sufi : Scholar,you've got it wrong. There is no creator or creation there, nor gross or fine, no wind or fire, no sun, moon,earth or water, no radiant form, no time there, no word, no flesh, no faith, no cause and effect, nor any thought of the Koran, no Hu or Allah, no Rahman nor Rahim, no pilgrimage and no salat. No mother, father, or Shaikh thre. Is it two or one? kabir says, if you understand now, you are the sheikh, I am the dervish. (if anybody wants the original translated text, not my "trans-lation" I can send it, or look in the Bijak of Kabir,North Point Press 1983). Love to all, a wo(e!)man - -- ------------------------------ From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Date: 01 Aug 96 17:03:01 GMT Subject: Good byes ********************************************************* Dear Ali (if you are still on line, though You are the line) Thanks for being, I was very enlightened by all your contributions, and would like to have your E/Mail so i could join the last hour berry pickers... I may also have to go for a while, a couple of months, so i would like to take the opportunity to thank everybody in Tariqas for listening and talking.. Inshallah i'll be back on this line early October... Dear Habib,most gracious host, I lost my instructions on how to to say goodbye to your majordomo, and also how to subscribe the digest could you please oblige? Love to all, I will still have E/mail until i go to Europe, that is until September 4,so individuals can still contact me, but i need to discontinue tariqas because i cannot handle the distraction of the volume of mail and do all the work i need to do ...i will miss you all! Love to all, Rabia Kabir says, seekers, listen: one born a man became a woman. ------------------------------ From: arsalaan fay Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: What is Balance On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Could meditation and > Dhikr help me not to be too tight or loose. Kaffea Lalla. Kaffea Lalla, your retorical question caught my eye because I build musical instruments. Meditation and Dhikr can help tune the heart, if done with presence rather than absence. Peace A. Fay ------------------------------ From: padenski@juno.com (Ruthie Roberts) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:28:41 PST Subject: Re: Woman If it is possible, could anyone post the list of the '18 punishments' for women? I am merely only curious, I for one, never knew that women had 18 punishments to endure. I really would like to know what else I can look forward too...other than menopause! ;) Blessings, Ruthie padenski@juno.com On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:24:43 -0700 "Michael J. Moore" writes: >Michael J. Moore wrote: >> >>. Even Rumi, or was it Ibn Arabi who said >> that there are 1,000 negative attributes, 1 is mans and 999 >> are womens. I'll find the exact quote if anybody is interested. >> >Even though nobody responded to this, I'd like to make a correction >because this does go into the archive. > >In his Book of Counsel for Kings, al_Ghazali is explaining >all that a woman has to suffer because of Eve's misbehavior >in the Garden of Eden: (he lists 18 punishments) this is >number 15) - the fact that merit has one thousand components, >only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are >attributable to men. > >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 > ------------------------------ From: "M.I.S. DEPT" Date: Thu, 1 AUG 96 02:37:09 Subject: Re: Woman There is one hadith which goes something like this : Man possesses 99 aqal and 1 nafs whereas for the opposite sex it is 1 a'qal and 99 nafs. I hope someone in the list could quote the source of this hadith. Salam Noordin ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Woman asalaam-u-aleikum Actually I have been told that menopause is God's reward to women for a lifetime of service. Concerning Imam Al Ghazzali, although he has many wonderful and penetrating insights, I wouldn't count his views on women as among these. This shouldn't deter anyone from reading him, though, his work is among the clearest and most insightful I have read. Lily On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Ruthie Roberts wrote: > If it is possible, could anyone post the list of the '18 punishments' for > women? I am merely only curious, I for one, never knew that women had 18 > punishments to endure. I really would like to know what else I can look > forward too...other than menopause! ;) > > Blessings, > Ruthie > padenski@juno.com > > On Wed, 31 Jul 1996 08:24:43 -0700 "Michael J. Moore" > writes: > >Michael J. Moore wrote: > >> > >>. Even Rumi, or was it Ibn Arabi who said > >> that there are 1,000 negative attributes, 1 is mans and 999 > >> are womens. I'll find the exact quote if anybody is interested. > >> > >Even though nobody responded to this, I'd like to make a correction > >because this does go into the archive. > > > >In his Book of Counsel for Kings, al_Ghazali is explaining > >all that a woman has to suffer because of Eve's misbehavior > >in the Garden of Eden: (he lists 18 punishments) this is > >number 15) - the fact that merit has one thousand components, > >only one of which is attributable to women, while 999 are > >attributable to men. > > > >-- > >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 > > > ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: request asalaam-u-aleikum If anyone is aware of a tariqa in or near Abu Dhabi, please contact me. Lily ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:19:16 Subject: Re: Woman >Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:50:25 -0700 (PDT) >From: Lilyan Kay > >Actually I have been told that menopause is God's reward to women for a >lifetime of service. "They're not hot flashes, they're power surges!" ;-) - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:13:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Woman Ruthie Roberts wrote: > > If it is possible, could anyone post the list of the '18 punishments' for > women? I am merely only curious, I for one, never knew that women had 18 > punishments to endure. I really would like to know what else I can look > forward too...other than menopause! ;) Merely curious? Huh! I would love to see the reasoning, if there be such, behind any punishments we "should" endure, male or female. Is it not clear that time and place and people should be considered in any sacred writings put into human languages, East or West? Coming from angel, saint, prophet, human? What was useful 1000, 50,000 years ago may not be useful presently? But we each have to make choices, day-by-day, and the results are the sum total of our beliefs. And these beliefs actually make us what we individually are, no two alike! Okay, Ruthie, let's get to the "bottom" of this apparent inequality of the male, female situation as presented in some sacred texts. You go first... love, harmony, and beauty, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:19:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Woman Lilyan Kay wrote: > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > Actually I have been told that menopause is God's reward to women for a > lifetime of service. > > Concerning Imam Al Ghazzali, although he has many wonderful and > penetrating insights, I wouldn't count his views on women as among these. > This shouldn't deter anyone from reading him, though, his work is > among the clearest and most insightful I have read. > > Lily What you are saying is he has a "blind spot" when it comes to women? He loses sight, insight, when woman is the issue? Wonder why that would be? A sign of his times, his politics? Peace, love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:24:07 -0700 Subject: Re: What is Balance Jacquie Weller wrote: > > I think a stringed instrument only works harmoniously and sounds beautiful > if the tension on the strings are just right. When the strings are stretched > too tight they break, when the strings are too loose the music does not > come, it only squeeks or groans whatever the case will be. > The same for me, my efforts may be tight, streatched, too stiff. I'm > working too hard, using too much power, or whatever. If I get too lax, > using no tuning, not doing anything, not remembering God, doing Dhikr, > thinking there is to be no training or anything, then the strings are too > loose, and nothing is produced that brings music. Could meditation and > Dhikr help me not to be too tight or loose. Kaffea Lalla. Kaffea, you sure do ask the simple questions, balance! Every heart contains a blueprint of truth. Most people know what happiness and unhappiness are, what contentment and discontentment are. How do they know this? How do I know that I am not content? How do I know that I am now disturbed? My body may be completely out of balance, and yet I will still know what balance and tranquillity are, and what discord and imbalance are. There is something within the core of everyone that reveals the truth. That something does not change, for it is primal and sub-genetic. The original blueprint is within the nature of homo sapiens. Follow your heart and things go right; follow your head and things likely will not. Heart is associated with fate; head, accident. Now both of these must be coordinated, brought into harmony, with higher mind, our intuition. Belief generally begins with a possibility or a hypothesis. It can also be simply blind faith. Then comes the stage of experimentation. For example, in believing that death is not the end of life, one needs to assume that the story of life cannot be entirely physical, that mind and perhaps spirit exists. After all, we think we have a hold on "mind" since we use the word so much. So an aspect of belief is that there is something else behind our physical existence. This very simple and ordinary starting point can become subjectively confirmed when it is personally experienced that the origin and source of life is beyond time and space, and that the body is a vehicle to reach higher consciousness. Belief (and blind faith) is a force which drives one to progress along a path. In reality everyone is a believer, even if he calls himself a non-believer, because non-believing is in istelf a state of belief. A person may believe that there is no other world, or experience after death. Such a belief too is a point from which a person is driven to derive maximum pleasure or happiness out of this life. Such is the condition we find the ordinary citizen of the western world. In other words, everybody is a believer in something, and it is this belief that is a driving force along a path to fulfillment, unity. But what kind of fulfillment are we seeing around us? I am primarily concerned with things of the "heart", though many other people are concerned with things of the "head". A balanced being is both of heart and head... much unbalance is seen around us because of the religion called "science". Gnosis, sufism, that original way of conduct that leads one towards the creator, the absolute, is not a religion but the Adamic way, moulded onto the first creation from the beginning of mankind. With the rise of Adamic consciousness there also arose in parallel to it an inner crack, or innate knowledge or understanding, regarding how to behave in this existence thus to avoid being confused. We all have within ourselves that seed of knowing whence we came. I call it intuition, that which the heart contacts, not to be found with the head. When still, really silent, we can make contact with our origins. For out of silence, a state of complete relaxation, came creation, that which is before any Big Bang or the like. Here is our home! "The outer law is my action, The path of purification is my way And the inner reality is my state." Hope all these words arranged in this way are a help to answer your simple question about balance, zikr and meditation. Do you believe? (read between the lines) Love, harmony, and beauty, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Hafizullah@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:13:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Attention all PC Users! FYI: Word 7.0a has a built-in detection for potential macro viruses and will warn the user if the 'document' they are opening is actually a template containing macros, and gives the option to load the file with the macros disabled. Additionally, in any version of Word with macro capability, the automacros (AutoExec, AutoOpen, AutoNew) are disabled by holding the Shift key down while Word is launching or loading a file. ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:39:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Woman and Ibn Arabi Ruthie Roberts wrote: > > If it is possible, could anyone post the list of the '18 punishments' for > women? I am merely only curious, I for one, never knew that women had 18 > punishments to endure. I really would like to know what else I can look > forward too...other than menopause! ;) Ok, but it might take me a couple of days. By the way, the quote is taken from the book "Why I am not a Muslim" by IBN WARRAQ. I got this book with the Idea that I would learn all of the objections to Islam and then I would learn how to respond to each of those objections. So, far, I've only scratched the surface and may never be able to answer all the objections. At least I'll have some fun trying! Lately I've been reading Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn Arabi. Man!! this is the toughest book I've ever tried to read. And I thought Carl Jung's Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious was a tough read. I can barely understand what is being said but ocassionally, a seed thought comes from the pages and penetrates my thick skull. When that happens, it is truley a revelation and makes any effort seem dimunitive. Now if any body knows of a book called "Ibn Arabi for dummies" or anything simular, I'd sure like to know about it. Al lah hu Akbar - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:37:53 PST Subject: Re: Woman Hello, dear Lily! >Actually I have been told that menopause is God's reward to women for >a lifetime of service. hmm... i see menstruation more as a blessing than a curse. It puts me in touch with the Earth, Mother of all -- and recognition that /my/ cycles are Her cycles, are my cycles... (of course menopause is /part/ of all that too! :) >Concerning Imam Al Ghazzali, although he has many wonderful and >penetrating insights, I wouldn't count his views on women as among >these. >This shouldn't deter anyone from reading him, though, his work is >among the clearest and most insightful I have read. Thank you Lily! In my immaturity, I tend to allow points of disagreement to color my perception of someone to the point of not being able to see past the disagreement'. I appreciate your attitude! love, woodsong ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Woman asalaam-u-aleikum This is a good question although I have to say as I get older it's easier to accept that people can be only partial and not complete jerks. After having spent time in places where I believe patterns of behavior are somewhat similar to what they were in his times, I would attribute some of it to this. If I were to view it out context I might come to the same conclusions. That is, women tend to act evil - passive aggressive, manipulative, dishonest, lazy, etc. That seems to be a standard human response to having no power - kids who are treated this way do the same things. If I had never met any women except these and wasn't one myself, I might come to the conclusion that this is they way women are. Particularly if it reinforced my own right to privilege. Lily On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, frank gaude wrote: > What you are saying is he has a "blind spot" when it comes to women? He > loses sight, insight, when woman is the issue? > > Wonder why that would be? > > A sign of his times, his politics? > > Peace, love, > > tanzen > > ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:07:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Woman and Ibn Arabi Assalamu alaikum, Actually, this is not so related to what has been said previously, but what I have read Ibn Arabi and Rumi wrote about women seems very different from some of the things al-Ghazali says.... just my impression. Ibn Arabi and Rumi seem a lot more positive, to make a gross understatement, though I haven't read that much Ibn Arabi yet. Wassalam, Fariduddien Rice ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:09:42 +1000 (EST) Subject: The Sultan and the Dervish Once the Sultan was riding through the streeets of Istanbul, surrounded by courtiers and soldiers. The whole population of the city turned out to see the Sultan. Everybody bowed as the Sultan passed, except for a single ragged dervish. The Sultan halted his procession and had the dervish bruoght to him. He demanded to know why the dervish did not bow when he passed. The dervish replied, "Let all these people bow to you. They all want what you have -- money, power, status. Thank God these things mean nothing to me any longer. Furthermore, why should I bow to you when I have two slaves who are your masters?" The crowd gasped and the Sultan turned white with rage. "What do you mean?" he cried. "My two slaves who are your masters are anger and greed," the dervish said calmly, looking the Sultan full in the face. Recognizing the truth of what he heard, the Sultan bowed to the dervish. (From "Love is the Wine: Talks of a Sufi Master in America," by Sheikh Muzaffer Ozak al Jerrahi al Halveti, p. 5 .) ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #90 ****************************