Dear reader: Please forgive any possible duplication in the following messages. I lost some, and was sent duplicates by a friend. From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:28:09 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:02:10 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: silsila >Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 08:56:21 +0200 >From: Mohammed Hassim >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: informe@best.com >Subject: silsila >X-URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani_english.html > >Peace be upon you > > >I would like to know how many silsila there are and the >names. > >Thanks >Mohammed Hassim >hassimmr@telkom09.telkom.co.za > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:28:17 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:03:07 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:52:59 -0800 >From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >> My wife came up with what she called 'speech fasting', where one goes all >> day without speaking. Of course, it may not be feasible in a situation >> where you must be on the telephone all day, but I have tried it on the >> weekends. > >This is not a problem for me. I can talk all day without saying a thing! >-Michael- > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:28:25 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:00:51 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: travelling >X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:23:24 -0500 >To: tariqas@world.std.com >From: "A.N. Durkee" >Subject: travelling >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >as-salaamu 'alaykum, > >dear friends > >i will be travelling to the middle east again for a month or so. i have >sent my unsubsribe to the majordomo but hope to read the tariqah posts on >return from the archives and also to re-subsribe on return, inshallah. > >friends wishing to be in contact can post me directly at nd4n@virginia.edu. >the mail should be read twice weekly and if there is anything urgent it can >be sent on to me. > >peace and best wishes. > >A. N. Durkee >Green Mountain > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:29:54 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:01:44 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: re Allah/God >From: Caravan >To: tariqas@world.std.com, mariam131@aol.com >Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 00:45:58 GMT+6 >Subject: re Allah/God >Priority: normal >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > > >Peace be with you Mariam, > >If you find any part of this response offensive, please ignore the >messagew and hang onto the first line. > >"The Christians believe in God, the Father" is essentially incorrect. >Some lineages of Christianity do believe so, and several >major lineages do not, nor do they believe in Trinity, a doctrine >established in the 5th century far from the origins of Jesus's >teachings. >-- >Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:00 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:02:24 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >From: ASHA101@aol.com >Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:34:30 -0500 >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >Dear Fred, > I'll bet you get a lot of response on this. Most, if not all, spirtitual >teachers, guides, gururs, etc... recomend no fasting except under specific >and direct advise to do so. In fact, I know of one sufi murshid who was quite >adamant and out spoken against such unsupervised fasting. > I know of another sufi murshid whose teacher asked him to eat some meat! >Wether it is right for you, and when, depends upon your murshid, as I sure >you know anyway ... > Asha > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:06 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:01:30 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Re: There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) >X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:26:03 -0800 >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) >Subject: Re: There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >At 7:31 PM 12/2/95, Naeem Khan wrote: >>...one thing was clear for me in the Gurdjieff teachings- You >>need a living Master like Gurdgieff to guide you. ...In a split second I >>knew I have found my Master > >The most important lesson to me was that "it" generally isn't found in >concepts, words, books or the worship of them. > >Bob > >Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a >olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. >P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a >Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. >415.457.2620 | >415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:12 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:01:17 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi >X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:25:33 -0800 >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) >Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >>While I am not expert enough to answer the question whether the >>copyright still holds on Nicholson's translation of Rumi's >>Mathnawi--the original copyrights being in the period 1926-1930... > >In much of the world it holds for at least 50 years after the author's >death. The U.S. used to be shorter however there would be little financial >incentive for any prospective publisher to limit themselves to the U.S. >market. > >Bob > >Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a >olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. >P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a >Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. >415.457.2620 | >415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:17 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:01:03 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Re: inside/outside >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:09:02 -0600 >X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) >Subject: Re: inside/outside >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >In reply to: > >>>>Certainly the Rabia who refuses to look outside at a spring day >>and chides the servant girl who invites her to do so, and says to >>her come inside and be with the Creator rather than with the >>distraction of spring and its frivolusness eludes to this.<<< > >Not that spring is frivolous, it is truly beautiful and we should rejoice >at it and contemplate it when it comes, however, the heart of saints >is a perpetual spring which does not take accept a second spring as >a partner. That's why Bayazid, when he was asked: "How is Bayazid >this morning?" answered: "There is no more "morning" and "evening" for >Bayazid. Certainly for us to "come inside" with them at that time, >is preferable than for them to "come outside" with us. >May God give us this great gift! > >Fouad From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:22 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:01:57 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: hunger and Sufism >Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 17:05:08 +1100 >From: D A Rice >Subject: hunger and Sufism >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >MIME-version: 1.0 >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >Assalamu alaikum, > >How important is physical hunger (i.e. not eating very much) in the >Sufi path? I have read of Sufis who eat very very little each day, >and in fact this was also a characteristic of Prophet Muhammad >(peace be upon him). > >I have been through some recent periods in my life where, through choice, I >ate very very little. I actually found that when I ate very little >(for at least a few days, though I have done it for months at the longest), >I became mostly more cheerful than usual (a type of minor ecstasy induced >by hunger?) but also could not think as clearly in a logical sense as >before (which is important, since this is important for my studies). >I also found it a lot easier to get fitter (normally I am very sluggish, >but when I eat little I feel lighter and feel like running for the fun of >it). > >Do others also have similar experiences? > >(The immediate reason why I ask, though, is probably because I have >eaten very little all day and it is on my mind, but actually I've >been meaning to ask this for a while :) > >Wassalam, > >Fred Rice From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:28 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:02:38 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:37:57 -0600 (CST) >From: Richard Bennett >Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu (Richard Bennett) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > > 786 >dear brothers and sisters: > >my sheikh used to say...and many sufi masters have said this as well... > >that fasting is 1/2 of the spiritual journey. fasting brings one closer to > >Allah because we fast for him alone and he is the rewarder of it. it also > >makes us lighter (physically) and able to perform more work and not feel tired > >and lazy when our stomaches are full of food. the lack of food also detaches > >us from the physical world, and allows the salik to fly in a less hindered > >fashion to Allah...fasting can also be seen as spiritual food...much in the > >same manner as zikr, moraqaba, breathing exercises, vigils etc. and when > >we feed our souls, they gain strength and tend to override the nafs, making > >us feel more spititually oriented. this is my input. inshAllah, i will > >check some books and get back to you on this. as sister Asha mentioned, > >be prepared to receive alot of responses on this topic! > >wasalaam, > >abdul ghani > >> >> Dear Fred, >> I'll bet you get a lot of response on this. Most, if not all, spirtitual >> teachers, guides, gururs, etc... recomend no fasting except under specific >> and direct advise to do so. In fact, I know of one sufi murshid who was quite >> adamant and out spoken against such unsupervised fasting. >> I know of another sufi murshid whose teacher asked him to eat some meat! >> Wether it is right for you, and when, depends upon your murshid, as I sure >> you know anyway ... >> Asha >> > From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:33 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:00:34 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:59:12 +1100 (EST) >From: Fred Rice >Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi >To: tariqas@europe.std.com >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > > >Assalamu alaikum, > >As an update on this, I have _heard_ (from my brother, who often knows >these things) that copyright on literary works usually expires 50 years >after the author's death. Assuming this also holds for translations, >R. A. Nicholson passed away in 1945 (according to our university library >catalogue), which would mean that the copyright on his translation of >the Mathnawi expires (or expired) this year. > >On Sat, 2 Dec 1995 omegapub@taconic.net wrote: >> The total pages in the 3 volumes comes to 1400+. It would be a >> healthy-sized text file to work with, and the cost of printing it >> out would rival the cost of having a nicely bound edition. > >That's true, it would be large, but the advantages to an online version >would be: > >* more people could access it (especially if it was available from a world > wide web site, for instance, or on CD-ROM, as others have suggested) > >* the search capabilities available with a computer would also make it > more accessible. > >As for the document's size, it makes the task a large one, but not impossible. >For instance, an English translation of Sahih al-Bukhari (the most authentic >collection of hadith for Sunni Muslims) is available on-line at several >world wide web sites, all 11 (?) volumes of it! > >If Sahih al-Bukhari is possible to put online, I'm sure the Mathnawi is >doable as well. However, it is possibly best done by a team... I have >to consider it more (and hope for direction) before committing myself to >such a large project.... but I do think that an online version of the >Mathnawi would be a useful guide for many of us (especially myself). > >Wassalam, > >Fred Rice From informe@best.com Sat Dec 9 11:30:41 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 04:02:53 -0800 From: informe@best.com To: habib@world.std.com Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:02:24 -0500 (EST) >From: "Brett W. McCoy" >To: D A Rice >cc: tariqas@europe.std.com >Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@europe.std.com > >On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, D A Rice wrote: > >> I have been through some recent periods in my life where, through choice, I >> ate very very little. I actually found that when I ate very little >> (for at least a few days, though I have done it for months at the longest), >> I became mostly more cheerful than usual (a type of minor ecstasy induced >> by hunger?) but also could not think as clearly in a logical sense as >> before (which is important, since this is important for my studies). >> I also found it a lot easier to get fitter (normally I am very sluggish, >> but when I eat little I feel lighter and feel like running for the fun of >> it). > >I tend not eat much during the day myself, partially by choice, sometimes >not by choice. I find that I am not as sluggish, like you, and my >thoughts tend to be more mellow and loving. When I do eat, especially >when I am working, I get very sleepy and drowsy. I feel it also keeps my >system cleaner, because I don't eat a lot of junk food (which can be very >tempting when one is sitting at a computer all day!) > >It's not good to go for long periods of time without eating of course, >and I do eat at least once a day (usually in the evening, when I get >home), or I eat a nice warm bowl of grits in the morning when I first get >to work. But fasting can be a good thing, if done in moderation, and if >it's done by choice and not forced. It also helps to keep me thin! > >My wife came up with what she called 'speech fasting', where one goes all >day without speaking. Of course, it may not be feasible in a situation >where you must be on the telephone all day, but I have tried it on the >weekends. Gives you a kind of interesting perspective on things. > >In Service, >Brett >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > Brett W. McCoy | There is only one difference > bmccoy@capaccess.org | between myself and a madman, > Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries of | and that is > both Love and War | I am not mad > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 08:50:38 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08607; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:55:59 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA22356; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:55:58 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05447; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:50:38 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA21897; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:50:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:50:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199512031850.NAA21897@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Dec 3 13:50:36 1995 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA21889; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:50:36 -0500 Received: from peoples1.peoples.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02671; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:48:24 -0500 Received: from [206.40.96.4] (randolph-2.peoples.net [206.40.96.4]) by peoples1.peoples.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA02127 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:34:36 -0600 Message-Id: <199512031834.MAA02127@peoples1.peoples.net> To: Tariqas Subject: List Subscription Date: Sun, 03 Dec 95 12:52:40 -0500 From: "Wm. Whitney" X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 -- [ From: Wm. Whitney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Subscribe Tariqas From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Sun Dec 3 12:05:47 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20387; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:05:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA06903; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:05:47 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:05:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199512032205.RAA06903@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: APPROVE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- root!fifthd@forthd.dcl.com requests that you approve the following: subscribe tariqas [] If you approve, please send a message such as the following back to Majordomo@world.std.com (with the appropriate PASSWORD filled in, of course): approve PASSWORD subscribe tariqas [] If you disapprove, do nothing. Thanks! Majordomo@world.std.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Dec 4 00:45:58 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20597; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:06:29 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA06924; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:05:53 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA06913; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:05:51 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18608; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:00:45 -0500 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzsom25165; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:00:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Sun, 03 Dec 1995 14:00:05 PST Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Sun, 3 Dec 95 13:59:40 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Mon, 04 Dec 1995 00:46:04 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com, mariam131@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 00:45:58 GMT+6 Subject: re Allah/God Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Peace be with you Mariam, If you find any part of this response offensive, please ignore the messagew and hang onto the first line. "The Christians believe in God, the Father" is essentially incorrect. Some lineages of Christianity do believe so, and several major lineages do not, nor do they believe in Trinity, a doctrine established in the 5th century far from the origins of Jesus's teachings. -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 20:41:07 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22960; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:45:42 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA15938; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:45:41 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22250; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:41:08 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA15712; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:41:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:41:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199512040641.BAA15712@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Mon Dec 4 01:41:06 1995 Return-Path: Received: from comsun.rz.uni-regensburg.de by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA15660; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:40:44 -0500 Received: from ngate.ngate.uni-regensburg.de (ngate.rz.uni-regensburg.de) by comsun.rz.uni-regensburg.de with SMTP id AA09339 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 4 Dec 1995 07:40:40 +0100 Received: from rvwnw1.ngate.uni-regensburg.de by ngate.ngate.uni-regensburg.de; Mon, 4 Dec 95 07:39 GMT Received: from RVWNW1/SMTPQueue by rvwnw1.ngate.uni-regensburg.de (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 4 Dec 95 7:40:41 +0100 Received: from Mailqueue by RVWNW1 (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 4 Dec 95 7:40:31 +0100 From: "Staubach, Reinhold" To: tariqas@europe.std.com Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 07:40:28 +0100 Content-Length: 322 Content-Type: text X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Staubach, Reinhold" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <5E5D0FC2461@rvwnw1.ngate.uni-regensburg.de> unsubscribe +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Universitaet Regensburg, Planungsreferat Universitaetsstrasse 31 93040 Regensburg Dipl.Kfm. Reinhold Staubach Tel. 0941 943 2321, Fax 0941 943 2339 E-Mail reinhold.staubach@verwaltung.uni-regensburg.de +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 21:25:26 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29506; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:30:32 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA19501; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:30:31 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28814; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:25:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA19196; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:25:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:25:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199512040725.CAA19196@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Mon Dec 4 02:25:21 1995 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA19177; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:25:20 -0500 Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28346; Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:22:06 -0500 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by relay-4.mail.demon.net id sg.ae05441; 4 Dec 95 7:19 GMT Received: from xeno.demon.co.uk by relay-3.mail.demon.net id sg.aa27469; 4 Dec 95 7:18 GMT Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 07:14:55 Message-Id: <250@xeno.demon.co.uk> From: Giles Davidson Organization: None Reply-To: gd@xeno.demon.co.uk To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: No Subject X-Mailer: Newswin Alpha 0.7 Lines: 2 X-Smtp-Posting-Host: xeno.demon.co.uk [Mon, 4 Dec 95 7:18:15 GMT] X-Smtp-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Mon, 4 Dec 95 7:19:45 GMT] subscribe From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Dec 5 23:44:08 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28483; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:36:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA02697; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:47:33 -0500 Received: from host.taconic.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA02692; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:47:30 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from ch_anx_p5.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA01779; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:48:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 07:44:08 PST Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism To: tariqas@facteur.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Jawad posted: "Actually, it is strange that you should bring this up at this time.I am in the middle of 'sucking myself into' Imam Ghazalis "Breaking the Two Desires," as translated by T.J. Winter." For anyone seeking this book, it can be found in the mail order catalog from Omega Press under the title Disciplining the Soul and Breaking the Two Desires. The book is $23.95 (plus $3 shipping). The catalog is free. You can contact through e-mail or: Omega Press 256 Darrow Rd New Lebanon NY 12125 800-443-7107 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Abi'l-Khayr E-mail: omegapub@taconic.net Date: 12/06/95 Time: 07:44:08 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Dec 5 14:39:49 1995 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23519; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:46:35 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzswr13813; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:24:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA03909; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:39:56 -0500 Received: from everest.cclabs.missouri.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA03890; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 21:39:53 -0500 Received: from muebnx4 (muebnx4.eblab.missouri.edu [128.206.116.14]) by everest.cclabs.missouri.edu (8.7.2/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA06431 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 1995 20:39:51 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi Message-Id: <199512060239.UAA06431@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> Received: by muebnx4 (NX5.67d/NX3.0X) id AA01152; Tue, 5 Dec 95 20:39:49 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 20:39:49 -0600 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamo alaikum Actually, it is strange that you should bring this up at this time. I am in the middle of 'sucking myself into' Imam Ghazalis "Breaking the Two Desires," as translated by T.J. Winter. For the past few days I have been trying to follow the advice given in the text, and I noticed the exact same things you mentioned. I, myself, don't believe in coincidence at all. The only difference is that I am actuall thinking a bit more logically (in studies, not on Tariqas or the Net:)). Imam Ghazali talks about hunger and the many benifits that one derives from it; he lists ten in total. The book is absolutely amazing. It is the one thing that I needed to help me get my life on some form of normalacy. I highly recommend to anyone that is trying or wiling to practice what they read. Assalamo alaikum, Jawad. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Dec 6 16:03:15 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29904; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 10:34:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA14429; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:42:29 -0500 Received: from comsun.rz.uni-regensburg.de by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA14156; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:40:13 -0500 Received: from ngate.ngate.uni-regensburg.de (ngate.rz.uni-regensburg.de) by comsun.rz.uni-regensburg.de with SMTP id AA08571 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:36:59 +0100 Received: from rvwnw1.ngate.uni-regensburg.de by ngate.ngate.uni-regensburg.de; Wed, 6 Dec 95 15:02 GMT Received: from RVWNW1/SMTPQueue by rvwnw1.ngate.uni-regensburg.de (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 6 Dec 95 15:03:17 +0100 Received: from Mailqueue by RVWNW1 (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 6 Dec 95 15:03:16 +0100 From: "Staubach, Reinhold" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:03:15 +0100 Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism Content-Length: 480 Content-Type: text X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Staubach, Reinhold" Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <61D339B580F@rvwnw1.ngate.uni-regensburg.de> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Tariqas, hunger in sufism seems to be an important "tool". Just think of "halvet", 40 days of extreme hunger. Or is halvet not a common practise? Yours, R. Staubach +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Universitaet Regensburg, Planungsreferat Universitaetsstrasse 31 93040 Regensburg Dipl.Kfm. Reinhold Staubach Tel. 0941 943 2321, Fax 0941 943 2339 E-Mail reinhold.staubach@verwaltung.uni-regensburg.de +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Dec 6 14:14:11 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17572; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:41:42 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA19245; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:11:53 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA19194; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:11:45 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.218] (sea-ts3-p36.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.218]) by wolfe.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id UAA16597 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:16:54 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:14:11 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: A reply to sufi-bashers (fwd) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > 786 > >asalaam > >dear brother fouad: > >thank you for forwarding the "sufi-bashing" piece on to me! many of > >the things that husayn said have the ring of truth unfortunately. > >thank you again and give my salaam to your family and to husayn. > >wasalaam, > >abdul ghani Ya Fouad, Thank you from me also. It always fascinates how, sometimes, heat can produce so much light. Peace and Blessings, Habib N. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Dec 6 12:32:51 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27291; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 00:01:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA21437; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:33:01 -0500 Received: from inet1.tek.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA21420; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:32:58 -0500 Received: by inet1.tek.com id ; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:32:57 -0800 Received: from tektronix.tek.com(134.62.48.24) by inet1 via smap (V1.3) id sma040317; Wed Dec 6 20:32:54 1995 Received: from cascade.ENS.TEK.COM by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/8.2) id AA12456; Wed, 6 Dec 95 20:32:20 PST Received: from netman.ENS.TEK.COM by cascade.ENS.TEK.COM (5.0/8.1) id AA15692; Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:35:36 -0800 Received: from localhost.TEK by netman.ENS.TEK.COM (4.1/8.0) id AA28401; Wed, 6 Dec 95 20:32:51 PST Message-Id: <9512070432.AA28401@netman.ENS.TEK.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Experiencing Allah/God Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 20:32:51 PST From: David Hatcher Content-Length: 885 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >"The Christians believe in God, the Father" is essentially incorrect. >Some lineages of Christianity do believe so, and several >major lineages do not, nor do they believe in Trinity, a doctrine >established in the 5th century far from the origins of Jesus's >teachings. Some interesting realizations came to me when I stopped, and looked, at the Christian "Father, Son & Holy Ghost", the three most important elements of Christianity. Many important points came to me when I was reading some literature by the mystics of that spiritual tradition. One point that was most important to me happened when I came across the suggestion to follow each of the three elements down towards, and beyond, to where the three merged and became One. What I found when I got there was, "La ilaha illa'Llah". Most interesting, indeed. But not surprising when one thinks about it. David From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Dec 7 14:57:21 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19987; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 00:29:14 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA19141; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 23:54:54 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA19136; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 23:54:51 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.104] (sea-ts1-p50.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.104]) by wolfe.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id VAA04577 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 21:00:01 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 21:57:21 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: hunger and Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > >I wasn't aware that many shaykhs were against unsupervised fasting.... >I can see, though, how it can be potentially harmful to one's health >if it is done to a ridiculous extreme, for example. However, on the >other hand, I have read hadiths where (_if I remember right_) sometimes >the Prophet (s.a.w.) would eat no more than a date or so during the whole >day (???). This was also true of many of the Companions, I believe. > > >As for me, I do not have a murshid, insha-Allah it will happen.... > >Wassalam, > >Fred Assalam Aleikum Fred, the example of the behavior of the Prophet (saws) is particularly appropos to the issue of practices without supervision. There are specific times which have been made available to Muslims for fasting in which all the Umma joins. These are open doors for all of us. Ramadhan is the most important of these. However, to take up other levels of fasting on one's own is a situation much like the Tenino man who said, "It is not good to travel when lost. You might get killed. There are high rocks where you fall and die." Like all medicines, self-prescription is risky and often useless. With fasting, the actual fast is often only a prelude to other "work" which rests on that foundation. Sometimes, the condition you are trying to effect with fasting, is best dealt with by living through it, ie, experiencing it and watching self and reactions in the context of your dhikr. With this in mind, look then at the usefulness of a teacher who knows the road and these conditions for having traveled them already. And, look at question of our readiness to practice all that the Prophet practiced. Simply, is it appropriate to our condition and station? Peace and Blessings, Habib N. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 8 01:00:36 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27352; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:05:42 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA01232; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:05:41 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26493; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:00:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA00944; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:00:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:00:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199512081100.GAA00944@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Fri Dec 8 06:00:34 1995 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA00934; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 06:00:34 -0500 Received: from merlion.singnet.com.sg by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25640; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 05:55:44 -0500 Received: from (ts900-2928.singnet.com.sg [165.21.9.144]) by merlion.singnet.com.sg (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA23735 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:55:38 +0800 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 02:30:42 PST Reply-To: zainun@singnet.com.sg From: zainun@singnet.com.sg To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: unsubscribe tariqas unsubscribe tariqas Abdul Ghani zainun@singnet.com.sg From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 8 10:48:53 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01388; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:35:27 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA03986; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:52:52 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA03976; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:52:49 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25231; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:47:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:47:53 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Reminder about List of Sufi-Related Resources on the Internet To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. There is a List of Sufi-Related Resources on the Internet at: http://world.std.com/~habib/sufi.html (on the World Wide Web). Your contributions, emailed directly to habib@world.std.com are always welcome. Thanks! habib rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 8 03:53:34 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13637; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:45:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA09094; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:02:34 -0500 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA09066; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:02:31 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQztgq07528; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from sybase.sybase.com (nntp1.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA02382; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:05:44 -0800 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA00875; Fri, 8 Dec 95 12:05:57 PST Received: by serii.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA19115; Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:53:34 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:53:34 -0800 From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9512081953.AA19115@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Nawawi on Ihsan (Excellence in Belief) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Hillu wallah!