From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Nov 20 13:06:25 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29917; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 00:05:08 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA02596; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 00:04:16 -0500 Received: from inside.cruzio.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA02582; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 00:04:12 -0500 Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by inside.cruzio.com id aa24710; 20 Nov 95 20:59 PST X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 21:06:25 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: james hallam Subject: Re: Maghribi font? Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >hello, >On behalf of shaykh Balil I am asking for help in locating a >Maghribi font that will work with kitabi text editor. >Thanks, >-Michael- > >.- Theres a web page mac yes dos maybe on the font you are looking for James Nimatullahi Sufi Order phone me if you are near (408) 768-9288 area From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Nov 20 23:06:54 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08406; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:07:37 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA27614; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:07:00 -0500 Received: from mailhost1.primenet.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA27609; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 08:06:57 -0500 Received: from usr1.primenet.com (root@usr1.primenet.com [198.68.32.11]) by mailhost1.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id GAA00312 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 06:06:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip091.phx.primenet.com (ip091.phx.primenet.com [198.68.46.91]) by usr1.primenet.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id GAA04988 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 1995 06:06:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 06:06:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199511211306.GAA04988@usr1.primenet.com> X-Sender: dougphx@mailhost.primenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dougphx@primenet.com (Abdual Alim) Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >> >>A few months ago I had a different account on the internet >(loran@indirect.com) but changed services due to this I was looking into >some Sufi groups which I lost a lot of the email at the end. I would like >to contact any groups which are in Phoenix,AZ or would like to be in the >area. There is right now only one other Sufi in the area that I know of and >is speaks mostly arabic. I was until he resigned talking to Sheikh Nur Al >Jerrahi (Lex Hixon). I have been following his instruction until >>that point ahn have not hear form anyone in the New York Jerrahi. I AM >looking for a Sheikh to guide me. I have been working on my path for the >last two years following any information I received. The last dream I >received: I was in a book store all the books were laying in piles on the >floor. I had a guide in the store with no name of which I knew. He went to >the middle of the room and found a couple of very old books from the middle >of the stack. As we left the store a snake by the door kept >>trying to bite us. We walked with our back to the wall and went by the >snake. I new information, I would like very much to get incontact with a >Sheikh to guide my on my path to my heart. >> > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Nov 21 20:41:41 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28241; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 01:42:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA26579; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 01:41:44 -0500 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA26570; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 01:41:41 -0500 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA00934 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 01:41:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 01:41:41 -0500 Message-Id: <951122014140_30471121@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Thanks from Habib (and Wa... Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Dear Habib, I would like to know how to unsubscibe from tariqas at this address and re-subscibe to a new address which is: abdlqadr@pop.slip.net.com. Please address an answer to that address. Thank you. wa-salaam From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Nov 22 00:44:00 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25072; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 06:46:24 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA12100; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 06:42:51 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA12095; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 06:42:49 -0500 Received: from asb17 (sls7.asb.com [165.254.128.17]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA00135 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 1995 06:44:00 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 06:44:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199511221244.GAA00135@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: If you want to meet a shaykh who has guided many people in America and Canada, come to 355 W. 39th St. Apt. 1 in New York City this Thursday night at 7 p.m. Shaykh Hisham Kabbani will be there for a few hours and will speak in English. Good luck. > >>> >>>A few months ago I had a different account on the internet >>(loran@indirect.com) but changed services due to this I was looking into >>some Sufi groups which I lost a lot of the email at the end. I would like >>to contact any groups which are in Phoenix,AZ or would like to be in the >>area. There is right now only one other Sufi in the area that I know of and >>is speaks mostly arabic. I was until he resigned talking to Sheikh Nur Al >>Jerrahi (Lex Hixon). I have been following his instruction until >>>that point ahn have not hear form anyone in the New York Jerrahi. I AM >>looking for a Sheikh to guide me. I have been working on my path for the >>last two years following any information I received. The last dream I >>received: I was in a book store all the books were laying in piles on the >>floor. I had a guide in the store with no name of which I knew. He went to >>the middle of the room and found a couple of very old books from the middle >>of the stack. As we left the store a snake by the door kept >>>trying to bite us. We walked with our back to the wall and went by the >>snake. I new information, I would like very much to get incontact with a >>Sheikh to guide my on my path to my heart. >>> >> >> >> > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 23 09:14:30 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08263; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:42:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA20313; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:40:51 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA20288; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:40:48 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from host.taconic.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07617; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:39:21 -0500 Received: from ch_anx_p18.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA11793; Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:40:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 17:14:30 PST Subject: new subscriber To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A sorry to post this to the whole list, but can someone forward to me the instructions for subscribing? thanks. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Abi'l-Khayr E-mail: omegapub@taconic.net Date: 11/23/95 Time: 17:14:30 "Above law is love; above love is the Beloved." --Inayat Khan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Nov 24 07:34:06 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18616; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 12:37:05 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA11972; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 12:36:19 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA11967; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 12:36:17 -0500 Received: from alfred.ccs.carleton.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17460; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 12:34:08 -0500 Received: from superior (superior.ccs.carleton.ca) by alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA23306; Fri, 24 Nov 95 12:34:06 EST From: ccscon35@ccs.carleton.ca (Rizwan Mawani) Received: by superior (4.1/Sun-Client) id AA01066; Fri, 24 Nov 95 12:34:06 EST Message-Id: <9511241734.AA01066@superior> Subject: Re: Sufi Investigation of Scientific Miracles To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Fri, 24 Nov 95 12:34:06 EST In-Reply-To: <199510240046.TAA24038@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>; from "Jawad Qureshi" at Oct 23, 95 7:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Jawad Qureshi writes: > Assalamo alaikum wa rahmat Allah, Wa salaam Brother: > And if anyone would like, I have a book that I am willing to give > (free of charge) that lists flat out, many of his miracles. Please > contact me. I know its been some time since you made this offer Jawad, but if it is still available, I would be most grateful. I would be more than happy to offset that mailing costs. Thanks in advance. Rizwan If it is possible, could you please send it to: Rizwan Mawani 1833 Riverside Dr. Apt. 200 Ottawa, ON Canada K1G 0E8 -- Quote of the day: "To H[ayley] Thy Friendshihp oft has made my heart to ache: Do be my enemy -- for friendship's sake." Blake ================================================================= Rizwan Mawani email: rmawani@chat.carleton.ca Carleton University Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Anthropology/Religion III (613) 736-7521 ================================================================= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Nov 25 07:55:29 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07019; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 12:55:29 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA21073; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 12:55:29 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 12:55:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199511251755.MAA21073@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com From: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@facteur.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sat Nov 25 12:55:27 1995 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA21068; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 12:55:27 -0500 Received: from vista.hevanet.com (hevanet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04782; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 12:51:36 -0500 Received: from [198.5.254.174] by vista.hevanet.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0tJOlJ-000eqCC; Sat, 25 Nov 95 09:51 PST Date: Sat, 25 Nov 95 09:51 PST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gpeech@hevanet.com (Michael Hagmeier) subscribe From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Nov 25 13:28:40 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20281; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:36:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA23356; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:30:42 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA23351; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:30:40 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18029; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:27:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:27:40 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Would anyone be willing to set up an archive for tariqas? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. The person who has voluntarily maintained the tariqas archive for the past few years is ill. She's not sure when she'll be better, but estimates 6 months to a year. Would anyone be willing (and have the skills and storage space) to set up a permanent archive for tariqas? If so, please contact me directly at habib@world.std.com thanks so much, habib rose host of tariqas From Mailer-Daemon Sat Nov 25 08:57:21 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27172; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:57:21 -0500 Received: from localhost by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA23358; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:57:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:57:21 -0500 From: Mailer-Daemon@facteur.std.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199511251857.NAA23358@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NAA23358.817325841/europe.std.com" Status: RO X-Status: This is a MIME-encapsulated message --NAA23358.817325841/europe.std.com The original message was received at Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:30:42 -0500 from daemon@localhost ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- tariq@humrahi.sps.mot.com (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: :include:/usr/local/lib/majordomo/Lists/tariqas) kar@jaring.my (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: :include:/usr/local/lib/majordomo/Lists/tariqas) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 tariq@humrahi.sps.mot.com... Host unknown (Name server: humrahi.sps.mot.com: no data known) 451 ABDU@chempath.uct.ac.za... reply: read error from uctmail.uct.ac.za. 451 amg17@crux2.cit.cornell.edu... reply: read error from crux2.cit.cornell.edu. amg17@crux2.cit.cornell.edu... Deferred: Connection reset by peer during client greeting with crux2.cit.cornell.edu. 451 reinhold.staubach@verwaltung.uni-regensburg.de... reply: read error from comsun.rz.uni-regensburg.de. ... while talking to jaring.my.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 kar@jaring.my... User unknown ----- Message header follows ----- --NAA23358.817325841/europe.std.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA23356; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:30:42 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA23351; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:30:40 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18029; Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:27:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 13:27:40 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Would anyone be willing to set up an archive for tariqas? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas ----- Message body suppressed ----- --NAA23358.817325841/europe.std.com-- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Nov 26 05:20:00 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10166; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 16:22:34 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA19783; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 16:21:18 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA19771; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 16:21:15 -0500 Received: from Shoal.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tJoVN-0005WSC; Sun, 26 Nov 95 13:20 PST Message-Id: Date: Sun, 26 Nov 95 13:20 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: Would anyone be willing to set up an archive for tariqas? Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A >Assalamu alaikum. > >My Dearest Habib, Please let me know how much hard drive space and what skill are necessary and if I can it would be my pleasure to serve. Jabriel > >habib rose >host of tariqas > > > ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Nov 27 20:12:42 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06249; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 17:17:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA23905; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 17:16:58 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA23900; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 17:16:55 -0500 Received: from vx23.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03352; Sun, 26 Nov 1995 17:12:50 -0500 Received: from vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au by vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.0-4 #8933) id <01HY4S5WO9WG9B0V9V@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 09:12:42 +1100 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 09:12:42 +1100 From: D A Rice Subject: The Invisible Ocean To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HY4S5WOVK29B0V9V@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I thought I would share this -- Fred. (From Lao Tzu, from Stephen Mitchell's version of the Tao Te Ching, ch. 11.) We join spokes together in a wheel but it is the center hole that makes the wagon move. We shape clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want. We hammer wood for a house, but it is the inner space that makes it livable. We work with being, but non-being is what we use. (From the Rumi web site, http://www.armory.com/~thrace/sufi/ ) Rumi VI (1369-1420) from 'One-Handed Basket Weaving' I've said before that every craftsman searches for what's not there to practice his craft. A builder looks for the rotten hole where the roof caved in. A water-carrier picks the empty pot. A carpenter stops at the house with no door. Workers rush toward some hint of emptiness, which they then start to fill. Their hope, though, is for emptiness, so don't think you must avoid it. It contains what you need! Dear soul, if you were not friends with the vast nothing inside, why would you always be casting you net into it, and waiting so patiently? This invisible ocean has given you such abundance, but still you call it "death", that which provides you sustenance and work. God has allowed some magical reversal to occur, so that you see the scopion pit as an object of desire, and all the beautiful expanse around it, as dangerous and swarming with snakes. This is how strange your fear of death and emptiness is, and how perverse the attachment to what you want. Now that you've heard me on your misapprehensions, dear friend, listen to Attar's story on the same subject. He strung the pearls of this about King Mahmud, how among the spoils of his Indian campaign there was a Hindu boy, whom he adopted as a son. He educated and provided royally for the boy and later made him vice-regent, seated on a gold throne beside himself. One day he found the young man weeping.. "Why are you crying? You're the companion of an emporor! The entire nation is ranged out before you like stars that you can command!" The young man replied, "I am remembering my mother and father, and how they scared me as a child with threats of you! 'Uh-oh, he's headed for King Mahmud's court! Nothing could be more hellish!' Where are they now when they should see me sitting here?" This incident is about your fear of changing. You are the Hindu boy. Mahmud, which means Praise to the End, is the spirit's poverty or emptiness. The mother and father are your attachment to beliefs and bloodties and desires and comforting habits. Don't listen to them! They seem to protect but they imprison. They are your worst enemies. They make you afraid of living in emptiness. Some day you'll weep tears of delight in that court, remembering your mistaken parents! Know that your body nurtures the spirit, helps it grow, and gives it wrong advise. The body becomes, eventually, like a vest of chainmail in peaceful years, too hot in summer and too cold in winter. But the body's desires, in another way, are like an unpredictable associate, whom you must be patient with. And that companion is helpful, because patience expands your capacity to love and feel peace. The patience of a rose close to a thorn keeps it fragrant. It's patience that gives milk to the male camel still nursing in its third year, and patience is what the prophets show to us. The beauty of careful sewing on a shirt is the patience it contains. Friendship and loyalty have patience as the strength of their connection. Feeling lonely and ignoble indicates that you haven't been patient. Be with those who mix with God as honey blends with milk, and say, "Anything that comes and goes, rises and sets, is not what I love." else you'll be like a caravan fire left to flare itself out alone beside the road. From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Mon Nov 27 05:52:35 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23003; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:52:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA14372; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:52:35 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:52:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199511271552.KAA14372@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: APPROVE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- tommyboy requests that you approve the following: subscribe tariqas tommyboy@xs4all.nl. If you approve, please send a message such as the following back to Majordomo@world.std.com (with the appropriate PASSWORD filled in, of course): approve PASSWORD subscribe tariqas tommyboy@xs4all.nl. If you disapprove, do nothing. Thanks! Majordomo@world.std.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Nov 28 21:00:36 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01193; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:12:48 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA05440; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:11:31 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA05422; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:11:28 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27449; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:06:16 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzrsm09098; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id KAA06091; Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:03:22 +1100 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:00:36 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Coleman Barks To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, Does anyone know much about Coleman Barks? He is (of course) well known for his versions of Rumi, which I am a fan of :) . I just noticed in the "Afterword" of "One-Handed Basket Weaving" (some excerpts from the Mathnawi), refers to Bawa Muhaiyaddeen as a teacher of his. Thanks for any info! Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Nov 27 16:41:01 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01258; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:47:15 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA27181; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:46:21 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA27169; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:46:19 -0500 Received: from echo2.echonyc.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29355; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:43:49 -0500 Received: from echonyc.com (suleyman@echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by echo2.echonyc.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id VAA19138 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:48:22 -0500 Received: (from suleyman@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.6.12/echo-relay) id VAA01926; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:41:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 21:41:01 -0500 (EST) From: Suleyman To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Lex Hixon Memorial Service Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As salamu aleikum There will be, inshallah, a memorial service for Lex Hixon (Shaykh Nur) on Friday, December 8, 1995 at New York's Cathedral of Saint John the Divine at 2pm. A merorial zikr is planned for the following Sunday, December 10, to be held at the Tekke at Mesjed Al Farah at 245 West Broadway, marking the 40th day since his passing into the realm of light. respectfully, Suelyman Abdul Karim From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Nov 27 17:59:53 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09377; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 23:00:40 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA05103; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 22:59:58 -0500 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA05093; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 22:59:56 -0500 From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzrtf01285; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 22:59:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22715 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 22:59:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 22:59:53 -0500 Message-Id: <951127225917_60371468@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Coleman Barks Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Very nice gentleman. When he started making poems out of transliterated poety he had no idea who Rumi was, except he kept having this dream about a short man sitting with his hands tucked into his sleves - that wonderful drawing of Jelaluddin Rumi. he has the most entranceing southern drawl - I'm sure Rumi now has a southern accent himself. He also has one of the most wonderful performances of poetry that you will ever see, with a beautiful and talanted Indian (Katak) dancer, a chellist, and a drummer. It is really first rate - could be presented on a New York stage to people who have never heard of Rumi and aren't paarticularialy spiritual, on the other hand, if there is this sort of audience the experience is increased and deepened. Asha From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Nov 28 05:59:59 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14121; Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:00:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA04748; Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:00:15 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA04742; Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:00:12 -0500 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzrvc19438; Tue, 28 Nov 1995 11:00:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA09043 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:59:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 10:59:59 -0500 Message-Id: <951128105958_60556074@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Coleman Barks Sender: tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 95-11-27 18:14:35 EST, you write: >Bawa Muhaiyaddeen as a teacher of his. He is a sincere and dedicated student of Bawa's message. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Nov 29 14:07:27 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21799; Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:12:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA04608; Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:11:52 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA04592; Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:11:50 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18759; Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:07:29 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id TAA29404 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:07:28 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id TAA09248; Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:07:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 19:07:27 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: Tariqas List Subject: "Mental Illness" and the path Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Hello all: Has anyone heard of "treating" a "mental illness" through a spritual path? I have a friend who has been diagnosed with "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" and I would like to possibly suggest some alternatives to expensive anti-depressants and Behavioral Therapists. My interests in mysticism (particularily sufism) have led me to investigate this possibility as well as my reservations about psychiatrics in general. The current Medical estabishment considers her problem (which is very real to her) as treatable, but not curable. I'm hoping to find possible solution that falls between the pain of her OCD states and the sleepy comatose anti-depressant states. Do Islamic societies have these types of "mental illness?" Or other cultures with mystical traditions? The consumption of alcohol seems to ease her thoughts. Could the intoxication of Love do the same? Thank you, Brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 02:38:12 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22565; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:38:53 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA03992; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:38:28 -0500 Received: from severn.wash.inmet.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id HAA03984; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:38:24 -0500 Received: from wayne.wash.inmet.com.wash.inmet.com by severn.wash.inmet.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07456; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:38:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:38:12 -0500 From: dlb@severn.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) Message-Id: <9511301238.AA07456@severn.wash.inmet.com> Received: by wayne.wash.inmet.com.wash.inmet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23417; Thu, 30 Nov 95 07:38:11 EST To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: (btaylor@cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu) Subject: Re: "Mental Illness" and the path Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Brad Taylor writes: Has anyone heard of "treating" a "mental illness" through a spritual path? I have a friend who has been diagnosed with "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" and I would like to possibly suggest some alternatives to expensive anti-depressants and Behavioral Therapists. My interests in mysticism (particularily sufism) have led me to investigate this possibility as well as my reservations about psychiatrics in general. The current Medical estabishment considers her problem (which is very real to her) as treatable, but not curable. I'm hoping to find possible solution that falls between the pain of her OCD states and the sleepy comatose anti-depressant states. This deserves immediate answer. Spiritual practices are *not* a replacement for therapy in any way. They should never be sold as such. Any teacher or guru who claims such should be avoided. Period. This is just as misguided as forgoing a medical doctor and seeking only faith healing for cancer. Please, *please* do not do this. That said, there is much benefit to be had by coordinating a spiritual and theraputic practice, and by making sure that they complement rather than fight each other. Just as alternative medicine can be a useful adjunct to traditional medicine (actually, I often think of traditional medicine as an adjunct, or part, of a holistic approach), so a spiritual discipline can greatly benefit therapy (or, rather, therapy can be one part of an overall holistic approach to total health in mind, body, and spirit). I sympathize with your reservations concerning psychiatry. Often it leads to a totally pharmacological approach to a given problem. This in turn leads to thinking of things like OCD as "treatable, but not curable". As with normal medicine, you need to take time and trouble to find a therapist that is amenable to working with spiritual issues as a part of the whole cloth. Do Islamic societies have these types of "mental illness?" Or other cultures with mystical traditions? Idries Shah states that, while problems often "evaporate" after embarking on a spiritual path, undertaking the path with that goal is a big mistake. On the other hand, he frequently writes that therapy either before or during the search is a good idea. While we should not over-separate things, we also need to make a distinction between therapy and spiritual practices. The consumption of alcohol seems to ease her thoughts. Could the intoxication of Love do the same? Love is not a prescription, or medicine that can be given in measured doses. Often therapy is needed before we can open to Love. On the other hand, spiritual sickness and mental sickness frequently interact. One is not a replacement for another; however, if skillfully handled, spiritual practices and therapy can greatly assist one another. Dave Barton <*> dlb@wash.inmet.com )0( http://www.inmet.com/~dlb From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 13:07:59 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02914; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:09:35 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA05937; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:09:17 -0500 Received: from hermes.dur.ac.uk by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA05903; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:08:10 -0500 Received: from venus by hermes.dur.ac.uk id (8.6.12/ for dur.ac.uk) with SMTP; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:08:03 GMT Received: from altair by venus id ; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:08:01 GMT Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:07:59 +0000 (GMT) From: L J Fatoohi To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: A New Book On Sufi Miracles (Paramann Programme Labs Research) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Friends, For those of you who have interest, a new book in Arabic has just been published on the research of Paramann Programme Labs of the miracles of Sufism. The book is written in scholarly style and it is the result of several years of theoretical and experimental research. It studies the miracle in the light of parapsychology and other relevant sciences. The current theories and trends in parapsychology are evaluated from a Sufi perspective in general, and the perspective of Tariqa Casnazaniyyah in particular. The analysis reveals that parapsychology has failed in building a real and consistent picture of the paranormal phenomena in general, including the religious miracles, due to the purely materialistic approach it has taken. The parapsychological research has greatly been dominated by the aim to prove that all paranormal phenomena are merely various manifestation of human nature, and thus, it denies the non-human, spiritual components of the paranormal. The book presents a comprehensive study of paranormal feats performed by dervishes of Tariqa Casnazaniyyah. These feats, which are performed by dervishes of some tariqas, include causing deliberate, serious injuries in various parts of the body, yet with impunity. The book views these paranormal feats from the perspective of modern science, emphasizing the great impact that their study could have on many aspects of the human knowledge. This is a pioneer book because the research itself is the first of its kind. It contains 18 colored photos of the phenomena it studies. TITLE: Al-parasycholgia bayna al-mitraqa wal-sindan: bahthun tajribe rai'd fil-khawariq al- Muhammadiyyah lil-Tariqa al-'Aliyyah al-Qadiriyyah al-Casnazaniyyah [Parapsychology Between The Hammer And Anvil: A Pioneer Experimental Research Into The Muhammadan Miracles Of Tariqa 'Aliyyah Qadiriyyah Casnazaniyyah] AUTHORS: J. N. Hussein & L. Fatoohi The book can be obtained from the publisher on the following address: Dar Al-Tali'a (Publishing House) P. O. Box 111813/118331 Al-Bustan Building Al-Musaitaba Street Beirut, Lebanon. Tel: 9611 314659 Fax: 9611 309470 The price is 12 US$ + 5 US$ (packing and air mail posting). If anyone needs further information please let me know. Best regards. Louay From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 04:02:47 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03604; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:10:18 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA11811; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:09:41 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA11801; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:09:38 -0500 Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09071; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:02:02 -0500 Received: (from bmccoy@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id JAA23465; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:02:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:02:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Brett W. McCoy" To: "Tariquas: Lovers and the Beloved" Subject: Re: "Mental Illness" and the path In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, B. Taylor wrote: > Has anyone heard of "treating" a "mental illness" through a spritual path? > I have a friend who has been diagnosed with "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" > and I would like to possibly suggest some alternatives to expensive > anti-depressants and Behavioral Therapists. My interests in mysticism > (particularily sufism) have led me to investigate this possibility as well > as my reservations about psychiatrics in general. The current Medical > estabishment considers her problem (which is very real to her) as treatable, > but not curable. I'm hoping to find possible solution that falls between > the pain of her OCD states and the sleepy comatose anti-depressant states. My wife, who has been diagnosed with as bipolar (Manic Depressive) and, in the further past, schizophrenia, spent nearly a month at a farm in Ohio that treats mental disorders with spiritual uplifting. While the site was more or less Christian, it focused on filling the 'patient' with spiritual balance to reflect down into their mental unbalancing, rather than filling them with just rhertoric and scripture. They delved down deep into their life experiences, trying to make connections between events and emotions, perhaps even touching on connections that my wife never even recognized. She returned home almost a different person (which other people beside myself have noticed), a very happy person looking forward to living out her life as best she could, rather than being mired in darkness and despair. And even though at the time she was very Christian, after her experiences there, she essentially left her church to pursue a more mystical path (kind of an interesting blend of Tantric Yoga and Gnosticism). > Do Islamic societies have these types of "mental illness?" Or other > cultures with mystical traditions? That would make a very interesting study. > The consumption of alcohol seems to ease her thoughts. Could the > intoxication of Love do the same? Yes, it would! My wife had troubles with overindulgence in the past (and it may be that her substance abuse could have contributed to some of her problems, but her use of drugs was a reaction to earlier problems and situations she was trying to escape from). For my part, I have done nothing but show her the Love that is bursting from my heart, dedicated to her happiness and welfare like a noble knight should be for his lady. Brett W. McCoy | There is only one difference bmccoy@capaccess.org | between myself and a madman, Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries of | and that is both Love and War | I am not mad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 04:40:21 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28777; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:50:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA16737; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:49:31 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA16728; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:49:28 -0500 Received: from cornell.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21237; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:40:45 -0500 Received: from orie.cornell.edu (PIVOT.ORIE.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.138.201]) by cornell.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA09244 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:40:43 -0500 Received: by orie.cornell.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08319; Thu, 30 Nov 95 09:40:21 EST Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 09:40:21 EST From: johara@orie.cornell.edu (Johara Shahabuddin) Message-Id: <9511301440.AA08319@orie.cornell.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: False worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Everyone, Salaam-aleikum. I have a long question for someone who has the patience to read it. I wonder how one distinguishes between true worship and false worship. Allah directs prophets to destroy the idols belonging to the main religion of their time and place...and have no idea why these idols are false. In our own time, we see that idols are worshipped but the worshippers are followers of what seems like truth not only to me, but also to great souls like Lex Hixon. So then, what kind of idol worship is false worship (in my mind there seems to be no way to distinguish a false religion from a true religion... a religion is a prevailing form of worship. i distinguish religion from worshippers - who may be true or false - (and i am not a judge of that)? Are there other kinds of worship that are false? There are so many different kinds of meditation practice - yoga, tai-chi, chi-kang...besides sufi zikr, or buddhist visualizations. To me it seems that the spiritual power summoned by these practices are often a matter of suggesting this power to the mind, which then summons the chemicals that lead to correct perception and action. Can those who practice any of these be said to be practicing a religion? Are these religions true or false? To my mind, true worship is that which leads towards discovering the power of the mind to do good...by correcting the perceptions of the worshipper, leading her or him away from intense desires related to things of this world, and towards an energy field that mind draws upon. so in contrast, a false religion would be one where such negative desires are built up...and this doesnt say anything about which religion to brand as false, in a practical way. So the main questions I have are: Can we know why Allah wanted some particular religions to be destroyed (like that of Lat, Uzza, and Manat) and replaced by Islam? Can we conclude from this that there are some kinds of religious practice that mankind should abstain from? As a Muslim, am I required to abstain from some kinds of worship? Am I required to abstain from all idol-worship? Is there anyone there who has worried about these questions before? Wishing for light, Johara. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 05:19:14 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17002; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:19:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA20563; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:19:16 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA20554; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:19:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:19:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199511301519.KAA20554@europe.std.com> Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.120]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:24:00 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: False worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:40 AM 11/30/95 EST, you wrote: > >Dear Everyone, > Salaam-aleikum. I have a long question for someone who has the patience >to read it. > > I wonder how one distinguishes between true worship and >false worship. Allah directs prophets to destroy the idols belonging >to the main religion of their time and place. Dear Tariqas, Some key questions to ask: 1. Does anyone make a living from this religion? 2. Is it part of the dogma that the religion offers the only true way to salvation? The six great religions of the world were all founded around the same message, which was brought and presented through the different prophets for a particular time and place. This message is the Sufi message of love, harmony and beauty. It always was and always will be, Peace and love, Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 04:45:25 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02974; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:44:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA23981; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:44:13 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA23976; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:44:10 -0500 Received: from asb18 (sls8.asb.com [165.254.128.18]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01971 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:45:25 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:45:25 -0600 Message-Id: <199511301645.KAA01971@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: False worship X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Dear Johara, as-salamu alaykum, The foundation of our religion and of all religions is that there is one God without partner. This is the greatest principle of all the Prophets and of the Last Prophet, Peace be upon him. However, the rust of time and the adulteration brought on by human beings, through both forgiveness and design, changes this simple original truth into multifarious statements. Now some of these changes are still symbolically referring to the same fundamental truth. But the language is not as clear and direct, and many are misled by it into false theologies and false worship. I encourage you to read the sayings of the great classical Sufi masters such as Abd al-Qadir Gilani and al-Shadhili. You will see there the unalloyed reality and purity of the faith of oneness which God reiterates again and again in His messages to humanity, and nowhere more clearly and explicitly than in the Holy Koran. May Allah guide you and me to the truth, Your brother Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Nov 29 23:43:23 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02877; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:44:15 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA23911; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:43:42 -0500 Received: from lafn.org by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA23892; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:43:38 -0500 Received: by lafn.org id AA25644 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@europe.std.com); Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:43:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:43:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199511301543.AA25644@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: False worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings, Great Question! Another way to respond is to clearly indicate, in each time frame and for each peoples or countries of this planet, IT is incumbent upon each and everyone of us to continue to probe, refine, and develop the true religion within each and everyone of us uniquely, and so we are directed to destroy the main idols of our times so as to accomplish this. To me this means to examine the basic unquestioned underpinnings that comes within the context of each culture, and time and people and is accepted as "the truth". As Hazrat Inayat Khan says: Shatter your ideal upon the rock of Truth. > >At 09:40 AM 11/30/95 EST, you wrote: >> >>Dear Everyone, >> Salaam-aleikum. I have a long question for someone who has the patience >>to read it. >> >> I wonder how one distinguishes between true worship and >>false worship. Allah directs prophets to destroy the idols belonging >>to the main religion of their time and place. > >Dear Tariqas, > >Some key questions to ask: > >1. Does anyone make a living from this religion? > >2. Is it part of the dogma that the religion offers the only true way to >salvation? > >The six great religions of the world were all founded around the same >message, which was brought and presented through the different prophets for >a particular time and place. This message is the Sufi message of love, >harmony and beauty. It always was and always will be, > >Peace and love, > > >Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington >Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore >United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi > > jmccaig@worldweb.net > > > -- q k From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 00:26:15 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00992; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:24:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA29089; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:24:13 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA29067; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:24:10 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20765; Thu, 30 Nov 95 08:24:07 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 30 Nov 95 8:24:06 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA08020; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:24:05 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00779; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:26:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:26:15 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9511301626.AA00779@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: "Mental Illness" and the path X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Brad, I cannot answer your question but you do seem to have a couple of misconceptions that are not helpful. First is that anti-depressants create a sleepy comatose state. Two people very close to me take anti-depressants and neither is sleepy or comatose. Secondly, you seem to have set up an 'either/or' situation. "Either a spiritual path or drugs". An alternative might me to do both and then over time with the benifits of a spiritual practice ( not that I am saying a practice could be spirtual ) this friend may be able to reduce the medication. People seem to have not problem putting a splint on a broken leg, but when the brain chemistry is broken we hesitate to take the corrective action. I am not saying that this is right or wrong, it is only a way to look at the situation and something to reflect upon. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 06:40:36 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14762; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:41:21 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA01024; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:40:54 -0500 Received: from panther.ferrum.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA01015; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:40:46 -0500 Received: (from nfs4362@localhost) by panther.ferrum.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA05486; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:40:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Bier To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: "Mental Illness" and the path In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Brett, I find your account of your wife's experience interesting, since I and a number of blood relatives are bipolar, some of us having been hospitalized. All of us have a greater than average interest in the spiritual life. My sister,who had the most intractable depression, became a pentecostal and married in that church and has raised a family. As she reports she no longer has serious 'mental' problems. I, personally, feel spiritually stuck, being most drawn to sufi practice and mystical god-centered perspective, but don't know how to proceed. My background is Roman Catholic and I currently celebrate with an episcopal congregation. My strongest nourishment comes from occasional participation in sufi practices along with Dances of Universal Peace in Charlottesville -3 hours away. anyway, I'd like any information on contacting the Ohio community you mentioned. thanks, jim bier -----------===========***********===========----------- Today is a GIFT, that's why from FAMILY CIRCUS it's called the present. by Bil Keane ++ JIM BIER ++ PROFESSOR OF CHEMISTRY BOX 2377 jbier@panther.ferrum.edu rte 2 box 35 FERRUM COLLEGE OFFICE 540 365-4362 Ferrum, VA 24088 FERRUM, VA 24088 FAX 540 365-4203 HOME 540 365-2230 On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Brett W. McCoy wrote: > On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, B. Taylor wrote: > > > Has anyone heard of "treating" a "mental illness" through a spritual path? > > I have a friend who has been diagnosed with "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" > > and I would like to possibly suggest some alternatives to expensive > > anti-depressants and Behavioral Therapists. My interests in mysticism > > (particularily sufism) have led me to investigate this possibility as well > > as my reservations about psychiatrics in general. The current Medical > > estabishment considers her problem (which is very real to her) as treatable, > > but not curable. I'm hoping to find possible solution that falls between > > the pain of her OCD states and the sleepy comatose anti-depressant states. > > My wife, who has been diagnosed with as bipolar (Manic Depressive) and, > in the further past, schizophrenia, spent nearly a month at a farm in > Ohio that treats mental disorders with spiritual uplifting. While the > site was more or less Christian, it focused on filling the 'patient' with > spiritual balance to reflect down into their mental unbalancing, rather > than filling them with just rhertoric and scripture. They delved down > deep into their life experiences, trying to make connections between > events and emotions, perhaps even touching on connections that my wife > never even recognized. She returned home almost a different person > (which other people beside myself have noticed), a very happy person > looking forward to living out her life as best she could, rather than > being mired in darkness and despair. And even though at the time she was > very Christian, after her experiences there, she essentially left her > church to pursue a more mystical path (kind of an interesting blend of > Tantric Yoga and Gnosticism). > > > Do Islamic societies have these types of "mental illness?" Or other > > cultures with mystical traditions? > > That would make a very interesting study. > > > The consumption of alcohol seems to ease her thoughts. Could the > > intoxication of Love do the same? > > Yes, it would! My wife had troubles with overindulgence in the past (and > it may be that her substance abuse could have contributed to some of her > problems, but her use of drugs was a reaction to earlier problems and > situations she was trying to escape from). > > For my part, I have done nothing but show her the Love that is bursting > from my heart, dedicated to her happiness and welfare like a noble knight > should be for his lady. > > > Brett W. McCoy | There is only one difference > bmccoy@capaccess.org | between myself and a madman, > Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries of | and that is > both Love and War | I am not mad > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 01:36:18 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23740; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:34:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA13535; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:34:15 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA13526; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:34:12 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01254; Thu, 30 Nov 95 09:34:11 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 30 Nov 95 9:34:10 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id JAA08713; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:34:08 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00801; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:36:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 09:36:18 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9511301736.AA00801@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: False worship X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I wonder how one distinguishes between true worship and > false worship. Allah directs prophets to destroy the idols belonging > to the main religion of their time and place...and have no idea why these > idols are false. In our own time, we see that idols are worshipped but > the worshippers are followers of what seems like truth What is your definition of an idol? Do you mean a clay figurine? Do you mean people that we put on pedistals like movie stars ect. Could money be an idol? How about your religion, could your religion be an idol? Could your intelligence be an idol? It is difficult to come up with a meaningful answer if we do not have agreement about the meaning of the question. So, let us define an idol as anything that is worshipped except Allah. But what does worship mean. This word comes from the root 'worth'. If we show that a thing has worth to us then we have shown worthship, or we have worshipped. So, if my children have worth to me, am I not worshipping them? And if I am worshipping them, are they not idols? The answer to this is yes and no. Yes to the degree that I believe they are not the creations of Allah. No, to the degree that I understand that they are beams of Allah's light. So, to have an idol, first you must be a person of a certain level of consciousness. You cannot be low like a sheep or a dog and have an idol. A sheep can value only what it was made to value, it has no free will and is not culpable. Most people are sheep and I include myself in this category, not from humility but from observation. Sleeping people cannot have idols. A person having attained a certain level of consciousness becomes able to have idols. An idol is created when this person chooses to deny the supremacy of allah. > To my mind, true worship is that which leads towards discovering > the power of the mind to do good. In my opinion you have this backwards. True worship is only possible 'after' having discovered the power of the mind and the heart. > So the main questions I have are: > Can we know why Allah wanted some particular religions to be > destroyed (like that of Lat, Uzza, and Manat) and replaced by Islam? > Can we conclude from this that there are some kinds of religious practice > that mankind should abstain from? What we conclude from this will depend on the level we are on. > As a Muslim, am I required to abstain from some kinds of > worship? Am I required to abstain from all idol-worship? As a human we are required to abstain but we cannot. This is why we have astagfarahllah. Allah has Oceans of Mercy for those who miss the mark. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 10:21:47 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17514; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:23:00 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA09747; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:22:30 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA09724; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:22:27 -0500 From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzsdd05001; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA19267 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:21:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:21:47 -0500 Message-Id: <951130152146_39568932@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: False worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: While some spiritual, some religious, and even some mystical traditions point the way through their own path which just as often turns out to be simple materialism (if you ask for the truth and someone hands you a book, they are materialists) and the rest mental constructionsists. Neither are wrong it is just, in my view, the cart before the horse. Worship, wether an act of glorification, recognition, celebration, supplication, etc. .... is something that comes from your heart. So the first thing has nothing to do with right or wrong. Who to worship, how to worship, when to worship, what is worship .... these are all step two, don't you think. One person may worship an idol, another an abstract thought, a third might worship a person while still another might worship something symbolic .... it is all worship. The only false worship is that which is not authentic. If person is authentic, truthful to themself, real (in the American sort of way - a real person), what I have been taught in my Sufi tariqa is that this would be true worship. There are so many sufi stories about being authentic, for instance: the one about the geat Sufi Shaykh who was praying in the Islamic way, on his knees facing Mecca, when a young woman walked right in front of him. Then later that day, he was praying again and again she walked right in front of him practically knocking right into him. He jumped up and gave the girl a lecture about how to act while prayer were being said, and why wasn't she praying .... She simply said, "I was thinking of the one I love, I didn't think about the time and I didn't even see you. How was it that you saw me?" Hopefully, he went out and got authentic and ceased all his false worship. Anyway, what our brand of sufism, and I think most brands, teach is that falseness of worship is not in the form but in the worshiper. Thus we learn to respect all froms of worship, most have something really vaulable and even sacred to teach. And as to false idols: the first idol to destroy is the idol that you have made of who you think you are. Many a myth is built around the prince who was hidden as peasant and who, through self discovery was revealed to be a prince. This egg shell covering the true prince is, however, like the Russian eggs within an egg. Crack one and emerge even more wonderful than you could have even immagined, and you certainly can't immagine that you are yet within an egg, which shall crack only to reveal yourself to be even more..... has it not allways been so? In fact, I think that this is not simply a progressive egg cracking until you finally crack the last egg and merge with the one light, but it is also cyclic (without end, hopefully without end) in which you are in fact bringing the light into the darkness, revealing and revealing and revealing - like a beautifull woman there is not end to the revealing. So, again, in my path, the false idols do not refer to those outside me, but those within me. Asha From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 15:21:34 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20651; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:28:13 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA10444; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:27:44 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA10434; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:27:41 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15890; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:20:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:20:34 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: "Mental Illness" and the path To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. I have manic-depressive tendencies. My way of treating them is totally based on my individual spiritual/life path -- primarily a lot of honesty with myself and constant awareness of my states. It works for me, I don't know whether it would necessarily work for others. Some people may need medication etc. Insh'Allah, I would be happy to talk with you or your friend about this by email. Yours, habib rose On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, B. Taylor wrote: > Hello all: > > Has anyone heard of "treating" a "mental illness" through a spritual path? > I have a friend who has been diagnosed with "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" > and I would like to possibly suggest some alternatives to expensive > anti-depressants and Behavioral Therapists. My interests in mysticism > (particularily sufism) have led me to investigate this possibility as well > as my reservations about psychiatrics in general. The current Medical > estabishment considers her problem (which is very real to her) as treatable, > but not curable. I'm hoping to find possible solution that falls between > the pain of her OCD states and the sleepy comatose anti-depressant states. > > Do Islamic societies have these types of "mental illness?" Or other > cultures with mystical traditions? > > The consumption of alcohol seems to ease her thoughts. Could the > intoxication of Love do the same? > > Thank you, > Brad > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 15:27:30 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24742; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:34:03 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA11239; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:33:47 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA11234; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:33:45 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19547; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:26:31 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:26:30 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: "Mental Illness" and the path To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <9511301238.AA07456@severn.wash.inmet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, David Barton wrote: > Brad Taylor writes: > > Has anyone heard of "treating" a "mental illness" through a > spritual path? I have a friend who has been diagnosed with > "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" and I would like to possibly > suggest some alternatives to expensive anti-depressants and > Behavioral Therapists. My interests in mysticism (particularily > sufism) have led me to investigate this possibility as well as my > reservations about psychiatrics in general. The current Medical > estabishment considers her problem (which is very real to her) as > treatable, but not curable. I'm hoping to find possible solution > that falls between the pain of her OCD states and the sleepy > comatose anti-depressant states. > > This deserves immediate answer. Spiritual practices are *not* a > replacement for therapy in any way. They should never be sold as > such. Any teacher or guru who claims such should be avoided. Period. > This is just as misguided as forgoing a medical doctor and seeking > only faith healing for cancer. Please, *please* do not do this. > In my experience, this is not so absolute as you make it. Some people respond better to one approach than another. In our culture, we have made a religion out of therapy. Other cultures have other ways of treating mental illness (as well as physical illness). These ways can be extremely effective in the right circumstances. The key is to identify the right approach for the individual. Insh'Allah a therapist will be spiritual enough to recognize when referral to a spiritual guide is in order, and a spiritual teacher will be therapeutic enough (and honest enough) to know when there are limits to what he/she can offer a murid -- and when therapy is in order. And, of course, the ultimate responsibility for these decisions lies with the individual themselves -- Insh'Allah, if they are open to God's guidance, they will be led to whoever can help them, and whatever treatment modality is best. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 15:33:44 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29055; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:41:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA11662; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:37:42 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA11646; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:37:39 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23786; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:32:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:32:44 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: False worship To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <199511301645.KAA01971@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Fouad Haddad wrote: > Dear Johara, as-salamu alaykum, > > The foundation of our religion and of all religions is that there is one God > without partner. This is the greatest principle of all the Prophets and of > the Last Prophet, Peace be upon him. However, the rust of time and the > adulteration brought on by human beings, through both forgiveness and > design, changes this simple original truth into multifarious statements. > Now some of these changes are still symbolically referring to the same > fundamental truth. But the language is not as clear and direct, and many > are misled by it into false theologies and false worship. > This is not true of Buddhism. The main point of Buddhism, as I understand it, is to provide an approach to become free from suffering. This is also not true of many other religions, which have other things which they emphasize -- e.g. connection to nature. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 18:46:49 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04520; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:49:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA13154; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:48:44 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA13109; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 15:48:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id HAA10673; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 07:48:23 +1100 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 07:46:49 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Re: Coleman Barks To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <951127225917_60371468@mail02.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks to all for the info on Coleman Barks. I haven't yet had the pleasure of hearing him read his versions of Rumi (and other Sufi poets), but I'm sure if I hunt around I'll be able to find a cassette/CD for sale somewhere :) Wassalam, Fred From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 10:47:43 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18225; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:47:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA20535; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:46:38 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA20508; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:46:32 -0500 Received: from asb18 (sls8.asb.com [165.254.128.18]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA01622 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:47:43 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:47:43 -0600 Message-Id: <199511302247.QAA01622@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: False worship (correction) X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I wrote: >Dear Johara, as-salamu alaykum, > >The foundation of our religion and of all religions is that there is one God >without partner. This is the greatest principle of all the Prophets and of >the Last Prophet, Peace be upon him. However, the rust of time and the >adulteration brought on by human beings, through both forgiveness and I meant to say: "forgetfulness" >design, changes this simple original truth into multifarious statements. >Now some of these changes are still symbolically referring to the same >fundamental truth. But the language is not as clear and direct, and many >are misled by it into false theologies and false worship. > >I encourage you to read the sayings of the great classical Sufi masters such >as Abd al-Qadir Gilani and al-Shadhili. You will see there the unalloyed >reality and purity of the faith of oneness which God reiterates again and >again in His messages to humanity, and nowhere more clearly and explicitly >than in the Holy Koran. > >May Allah guide you and me to the truth, > >Your brother > >Fouad Haddad >Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 10:34:42 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17483; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 17:35:19 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA26550; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 17:34:54 -0500 Received: from turtle.mcc.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA26543; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 17:34:51 -0500 Received: from titanium.mcc.com (titanium.mcc.com [128.62.30.73]) by turtle.mcc.com (8.6.10/mcc.8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA29265 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:34:42 -0600 Received: (from mosfet@localhost) by titanium.mcc.com (8.6.12/mccsun-9509201604) id QAA00697; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:34:42 -0600 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 16:34:42 -0600 From: Mosfeq Rashid Message-Id: <199511302234.QAA00697@titanium.mcc.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: re: "Mental Illness" and the path In-Reply-To: `"Mental Illness" and the path' by B. Taylor (29 November 1995,) References: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: You may want to read Sufism as Therapy by Omar Ali-Shah. - M. Rashid From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Nov 30 16:21:00 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28993; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 03:22:12 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA27706; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 03:21:41 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA27691; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 03:21:39 -0500 Received: from Hurst.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tLQiq-0005WPC; Fri, 1 Dec 95 00:21 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 00:21 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: The Beauty of A Rose Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A >Assalamu alaikum Habib > How often I feel my spirit up lifted by the fragrance of your message. To call you a rose is only to say that you are a divine mystery, like the tip of a red frozen petal in a grave yard in Konya on December 17th, ready to shatter just at the touch. Who would know of its life? Who would dare guess? Words are only poor excuses for the way we kiss. Now the earth. Now paradise. Both are insuffcient. When it comes to Allah everything disappears. I love you right now so my Brother. Jabriel ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 05:22:38 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19014; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:34:18 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA16020; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:32:23 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA16009; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:32:21 -0500 Received: from cornell.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11566; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:23:17 -0500 Received: from orie.cornell.edu (PIVOT.ORIE.CORNELL.EDU [128.84.138.201]) by cornell.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06246 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:23:16 -0500 Received: by orie.cornell.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15457; Fri, 1 Dec 95 10:22:38 EST Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 10:22:38 EST From: johara@orie.cornell.edu (Johara Shahabuddin) Message-Id: <9512011522.AA15457@orie.cornell.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Dear Everyone, Salaams to you again. Dear Everyone, What each of you has said finds concurrence within me, and makes me understand that what bothers me is elusive even to me. I reflected on your replies and this is what I see, even though I still feel as though I am being shaken, and `Understand!' is the command. I'd like to remind everyone that my question was about religion and not about idols (though it used that as an image). There are paths that take us so far and no farther, there are paths that lead us away from Truth, and there are those that have the potential to take us all the way there. It is perhaps possible for me to tell which is which for myself - and impossible to tell about this for others. My understanding is very limited. There are great souls whose understanding is not limited. When a Prophet comes into being, it is possible for those around him to see his truth. Prophets carry an ancient wisdom with them, refreshing and clear, and complete. Those who understand that he shows a Clear way will be those near to true worship, while those who do not are those near to false worship. Prophets know true from false are thus able to destroy idols. Maharaj James McCaig's two criteria are simple and easy to understand for me - but again I can use my judgement only as far as I am able. I think that if I am sure someone is using religion as a power to advance her or his self-interest, then i know its falsehood. Those who vouch for the exclusive truth of their religion speak from a half-knowledge - they do not know what other religions have to offer - not unless they are blessed with the insight of a Prophet. And therefore I will not trust their judgement (sorry, Fouad, I do not see your point). So (thanks Ivan, Michael, Asha) it is not for me to destroy any idols but those that are within me, and concentrate on idols that I know to be idols - for the Prophets destroyed only those idols they knew to be so. I believe in the truth of what the Prophets did and would love to follow in their footsteps - but am afraid that that would be as unwise as a blind man trying to follow a man with sight, when they dont have a hand to hold. In the ways that our hand is held, we follow. Yes, true worship follows heart, but it is also true that where heart is lacking, true worship brings one nearer to Allah, while false takes one to limited goals, or farther away from them...I pray that we each gain the insight to go far. All this that, now on reading over, I see sounds so self-assured, is not so. I am at a station in a journey, because I am still being shaken. I see the paths I'm questioning as streaks of light in a fog, some brighter some darker. What I see is more because of fog or distance than because of brightness intrinsic to the paths I see. I do not see where they come from nor where they lead to. With love and regards, Johara. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 06:25:17 1995 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26322; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:33:14 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzsgg20720; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA23947; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:27:47 -0500 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA23932; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:27:45 -0500 From: NurLuna@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzsgf25477; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA24083; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:25:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:25:17 -0500 Message-Id: <951201112515_122043773@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: Sophia Subject: Re: No Subject Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam aleikum, Sister Jewel, and all my tariqas brothers and sisters! In a message dated 95-12-01, Johara wrote: > All this that, now on reading over, I see sounds so self-assured, >is not so. I am at a station in a journey, because I am still being shaken. >I see the paths I'm questioning as streaks of light in a fog, some brighter >some darker. What I see is more because of fog or distance than because of >brightness intrinsic to the paths I see. I do not see where they come from >nor where they lead to. I am sending a copy of something from a friend which has recently helped me alot in my seemingly futile journey. Blessings to you! Farrunnissa Fwd: From: kathy@xnet.com Subject: The Dark Night of the Soul: Paul Brunton Date: 8 Nov 1995 16:10:30 GMT This post is for Katie [in alt.meditation] and any others who may have been going through a 'dark night'.. This is excerpted from the book: Advanced Contemplation/The Peace Within You, Vol. 15, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton: THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL The upward flights of the aspirant's novitiate are bought at the cost of downward falls. It is as much a part of his experience of this quest to be deprived at times of all feeling that the divine exists and is real, as it is to have the sunny assurance of it. At first the experience of reality comes only in flashes. Actually it is not the higher self which tantalizingly appears and disappears before the aspirant's gaze in this way, causing him alternating conditions of happy frustration and miserable sterility, but the higher self's loving _Grace_. Each time this is shed, the aspirant's first reaction is a strong sense of spiritual lack, dryness, darkness, and longing. This brings much unhappiness, self-discontent, and frustration. But it also brings much both increased and intensified aspiration for the unearthly and distaste for the earthly. This phase passes away, however, and is followed by one as illuminative as the other was dark, as joyous as the other was unhappy, as productive as the other was barren, and as close to reality as the other seemed far from it. In the sacred presence a purifying process takes place. The old familiar and faulty self drops away like leaves from a tree in autumn. He makes the radiant discovery in his heart of its original goodness. But alas, when the presence departs, the lower self returns and resumes sovereignty. The period of illumination is often followed by a period of darkness. A spiritual advance which comes unexpectedly is usually succeeded by a period of recoil. Jubilation is followed by depression. A greater trial still awaits him. The Overself demands a sacrifice upon its altar so utter, so complete that even the innocent natural longing for personal happiness must be offered up. As no novice and few intermediates could bear this dark night of the soul, and as even proficients cannot bear it without murmuring, it is reserved for the last group alone--which means that it happens at an advanced stage along the path, between a period of great illumination, and another of sublime union. During this period the mystic will feel forsaken, emotionally fatigued, and intellectually bored to such a degree that he may become a sick soul. Meditation exercises will be impossible and fruitless, aspirations dead and uninviting. A sense of terrible loneliness will envelop him. Interest in the subject may fall away or the feeling that further progress is paralysed may become dominant. Yet in spite of contrary appearances, this is all part of his development, which has taken a turn that will round it out and make it fuller. Most often the student is plunged into new types of experience during the dark period. The Overself sends him forth to endure tests and achieve balance. The most dangerous feature of the "dark night" is a weakening of the will occurring at the same time as a reappearance of old forgotten evil tendencies. This is the point where the aspirant is really being tested, and where a proportion of those who have reached this high grade fail in the test and fall for several years into a lower one. Even Muhammed had to undergo this experience of the dark night of the soul. It lasted three years and not a single illumination or revelation came to brighten his depressed heart. Indeed he even considered the idea of killing himself to put an end to it; and yet his supreme realization and world-shaking task were still ahead of him." Ch. 3, p. 52-53 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 16:13:01 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28492; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:27:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA14431; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:26:55 -0500 Received: from janeway.tscnet.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA14422; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:26:52 -0500 Received: from sdavis.telebyte.com (ip211.tscnet.com [204.122.19.211]) by janeway.tscnet.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA04342 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:16:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199512020016.QAA04342@janeway.tscnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Scott "Omar" Davis" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:13:01 +0000 Subject: Signing Off ??? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Am having trouble signing off this mail group...due to upcoming move to Cairo, Egypt I despretly need to reduce mail volumn until I reestablish service....Would someone please send me the "Secret"... Salam... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Scott "Omar" Davis ("\-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-' omard1@tscnet.com "Wa'Allaacum Salam" (And may the Peace of God be upon you...!) Home Page: http://tscnet.com/pages/omard1/omarx.html Manager Of: "Kitsap Peninsula Islamic Alliance:" http://tscnet.com/pages/omard1/omarx1.html "Natural Magick" - John Babtist Porta (1537-1615): http://tscnet.com/pages/omard1/jportat4.html xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 09:02:48 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12770; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:01:38 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA17237; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:01:13 -0500 Received: from miwok.nbn.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA17223; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 20:01:09 -0500 Received: from [199.4.64.25] (srf-23.nbn.com [199.4.64.23]) by miwok.nbn.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA28217 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:01:00 -0800 X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:02:48 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Subject: Re: Signing Off ??? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >Am having trouble signing off this mail group...due to upcoming move >to Cairo, Egypt I despretly need to reduce mail volumn until I >reestablish service....Would someone please send me the "Secret"... > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the following command in email to "tariqas-request@europe.std.com": unsubscribe Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 11:36:24 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21558; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 22:34:27 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29416; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 22:33:56 -0500 Received: from inside.cruzio.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29405; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 22:33:53 -0500 Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by inside.cruzio.com id aa17508; 1 Dec 95 19:32 PST X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:36:24 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: satynna Subject: There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Having been a member of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order and knowing the kindness many members of that order show still I wonder whether some other order would be more practical to me I come from the tradition of Gurdjieff (may his soul rest in peace) verifying everything and having some mystical experiences definable to me based on his teachings. We listen to tapes and the Master at least for me is too far away. I am too low and He is high in the sky (London).It seems the weeks merge into the months I am no better this month than last. Any of you have such similar doubts? Shia/Sunni have anything to do with Sufism and its efficacy? There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) James Hallam May Allahs Grace Be with you From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 18:33:47 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18307; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:34:21 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA04114; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:33:53 -0500 Received: from relay7.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA04109; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:33:50 -0500 From: Mariam131@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzsic27850; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA12138 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:33:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:33:47 -0500 Message-Id: <951201233345_122656302@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: False worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A All religions are full of symbols - that is how humans communicate with one another. We also store the accumulated knowledge we wish to pass on to others in symbols such as letters, numbers, words, pictures, etc. When we remember what they mean they are symbols. When we forget their meaning and only worship their form, losing our understanding of what they are supposed to remind us of, they become idols. The best way to remember the meanings of the different symbols passed on to us by our predecessors is to keep the lines of communication open between us so that we can remind each other of parts we may forget, in this way always trying to keep the whole picture up front. The lines of communication can only be kept open if we have some good feeling for one another. We communicate with our children and teach them how to communicate with ourselves and others out of love for them. We know this will make it possible for them to survive. The servants of Allah, out of love for us, have tried to open the lines of communication between us so that we can understand our Creator's Will and work to live together in peace and harmony. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 19:03:42 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29595; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 00:04:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA06762; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 00:03:45 -0500 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA06757; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 00:03:42 -0500 From: Mariam131@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA14152 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 00:03:42 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 00:03:42 -0500 Message-Id: <951202000341_62697508@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Allah, or God? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Why are Muslims telling people of Christian background that "Muslims and Christians believe in the same God", using exactly those words? Muslims say this knowing full well the Christians believe in God, The Father - that often only "The Father" is used since "God" and "The Father" are synonymous. Later, when people of Christian background have married or become otherwise involved in working with Muslims, they are informed that Allah is 'The' God who is not referred to or thought of as The Father. When a person of Christian backgound tries to work through this they are informed, (by many Muslims who have not wanted to bother with finding out where Allah is in Christian theology), that they are confused, and they and their families are kafr (unbelivers, idolaters). First they believe in the same God, then they don't, and all the confusion is their fault because they are really kafir (unbelievers) even though Allah, the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and the Muslim community say they are believers. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 01:40:14 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29503; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 01:36:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA13585; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 01:27:11 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA13566; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 01:27:08 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28878; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 01:33:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id RAA18465; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:33:40 +1100 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:31:08 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, Does anyone know if the copyright is still in effect on Nicholson's translation of Rumi's Mathnawi? If it isn't, it might be worth trying to get the work scanned as a text file (for easy distribution and study)! I might be able to try to undertake such a venture (with Allah's will) if it is no longer under copyright. Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 15:43:00 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15638; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 02:44:49 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA18644; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 02:44:19 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA18639; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 02:44:15 -0500 Received: from i6.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tLmc3-0005UvC; Fri, 1 Dec 95 23:43 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 23:43 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: My Dearest James, There are so many paths. There are always those who will speak of the most direct path. I for one one have sold system for system to survive only to find myself lost, empty, and as disloyal to life as the illusion of my broken original vow. A dear friend named Haffisulah recently wrote to me that wisdom might have one not follow three hundred diffrent paths looking at a landscape horosonattal, but rather dig three hundred feet deep at the spot one finds oneself at. I assume he was speaking about the souls of one's feet. Thus for the Jew it is all Torah, for the Moslem the Shari at, and for the student of Gurdgeiff the precision of the breathing letter and a sacred dance. Thus I pray tonight for you my love. May your soul find the satisfaction and completion, the liberation and the exctacy in the immersion we each seek, regardless of the path, and may you find your contribution to another disappear and make short your temporary sense of despair, confusion, or perhaps shift in direction. When we carry water may we say El hum du li lah, when we chop wood may we say El Hum du lelah, when we find ourselves bored, battered, beaten, insulted and broken, or loved, acknowleged cherished may we say with all our hearts El hum dullelah. God Bless You , God Be With You, May God teach you to forgive you and everyone and everything, may your heart be filled with joy and love, may your hands be about the work of Allah, may your mind be as straight as an arrow and your souls target be one with the plan your Creator have for you, for how could it be otherwise. So smile and bask right now in love and know that you are just enough, and cherished always, always, always my Beloved. Your Servant and Brother. Jabriel ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 20:04:16 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00967; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 05:03:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA23658; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 05:02:07 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA23653; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 05:02:05 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.68] (sea-ts1-p14.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.68]) by wolfe.net (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id CAA19581 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 02:07:09 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 03:04:16 -0700 To: Tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: Moving passages from Sufi Literature Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalam Aleikum This is a message from a friend of mine who asks: "Would >you please ask people to send me any suggestions about inspiring passages? > I'm looking for poetry, prose from a paragraph to a page or two. things to >introduce people to the beauty and depths of sufism. I'd be happy to get any >suggestions to my e-mail box. > > His e-mail address is RDFrager@aol.com He is tasked with editing a publication in the format mentioned above and would appreciate your help. Thanks, Habib Najar From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 01:07:25 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28787; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:22:14 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA04021; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:20:50 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA04013; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:20:47 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from host.taconic.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27095; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:15:23 -0500 Received: from ch_anx_p18.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA03332; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:16:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 09:07:25 PST Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: While I am not expert enough to answer the question whether the copyright still holds on Nicholson's translation of Rumi's Mathnawi--the original copyrights being in the period 1926-1930--I can at least indicate that the work itself is still in print and available. There is a three volume edition of the English translation produced in England by the Gibb Memorial Trust (holder of copyright) which retails in this country for $99 (this is available from Omega Publications, 800-443-7107). There are also editions produced in India or Pakistan which are on lower quality paper and sell for somewhat less, perhaps $60-75 per set. You would have to search these out, but they are around. The total pages in the 3 volumes comes to 1400+. It would be a healthy-sized text file to work with, and the cost of printing it out would rival the cost of having a nicely bound edition. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Abi'l-Khayr E-mail: omegapub@taconic.net Date: 12/02/95 Time: 09:07:25 "Above law is love; above love is the Beloved." --Inayat Khan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 04:59:23 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10483; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:00:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA06135; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:59:30 -0500 Received: from belize.ucs.indiana.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA06129; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:59:28 -0500 Received: from bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (pyachnes@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.1.15]) by belize.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7/8.7/1.10IUPO) with ESMTP id JAA29526 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:57:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pyachnes@localhost) by bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.13/1.1clump) id JAA04028; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:59:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:59:23 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Yachnes X-Sender: pyachnes@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Moving passages from Sufi Literature In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: You or your friend might look for sources in my Sufism: an Annotated Resource Guide at http://bronze.ucs.indiana.edu:80/~pyachnes/sufres.html Paul Yachnes Middle Eastern Studies Subject Area Librarian Indiana University Library On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, George Steffen wrote: > Assalam Aleikum > > This is a message from a friend of mine who asks: "Would > >you please ask people to send me any suggestions about inspiring passages? > > I'm looking for poetry, prose from a paragraph to a page or two. things to > >introduce people to the beauty and depths of sufism. I'd be happy to get any > >suggestions to my e-mail box. > > > > His e-mail address is RDFrager@aol.com > > He is tasked with editing a publication in the format mentioned > above and would appreciate your help. > > Thanks, > Habib Najar > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Dec 1 23:17:00 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16015; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:18:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07368; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:17:10 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07362; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:17:07 -0500 Received: from Valdes.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tLtgW-0005WzC; Sat, 2 Dec 95 07:17 PST Message-Id: Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 07:17 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: False worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >The is no God but Allah and Allah has no partners. Does this than mean that there is nothing but Allah and that all else is but an idol? This is a real question designed to evoke diffrent perspectives. Certtainly the Rabia who refuses to look outside at a sprind day and chides the servant girl who who invites her todo so, and says to her come inside and be with the Creator rather than with the distraction of spring and its frivolusness eludes to this. Certainly the wish for annihilation of me, and I with a wish to be emmersed in an Ocean of Love where individuation does not matter elludes to this. My capacity is I know quite limited. I welcome all responces. The gamut would seem to bring up conversations regarding monoism, patheism, monotheism. Hopefully there will be some remark which will strike at the heart and open a tiny bit of direct experience. Than you. Jabriel ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 05:53:32 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21712; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:53:32 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA14446; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:52:09 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA14439; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:52:06 -0500 Received: from asb11 (sls1.asb.com [165.254.128.11]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02276 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:53:32 -0600 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:53:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199512021753.LAA02276@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Allah, or God? X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to Mariam131@aol.com: >Why are Muslims telling people of Christian background that "Muslims and >Christians believe in the same God", using exactly those words? Because it is true, at least I believe so, and I am a Muslim with a Christian background. And the members of my family who are observant or religious all beleive the same thing, whether they are Christians or Muslims. And I can tell you also that this is the common belief of the people of my country (Lebanon). Muslims say >this knowing full well the Christians believe in God, The Father - that often >only "The Father" is used since "God" and "The Father" are synonymous. Fine, and this is true metaphorically speaking, not biologically. >Later, when people of Christian background have married or become otherwise >involved in working with Muslims, they are informed that Allah is 'The' God >who is not referred to or thought of as The Father. Arab Christians also use the name "Allah". And, yes, the name "Father" is not used in Islam. But Muslims may say: "God loves you like a father," "God loves you more than a mother loves her child." When a person of >Christian backgound tries to work through this they are informed, (by many >Muslims who have not wanted to bother with finding out where Allah is in >Christian theology), that they are confused, and they and their families are >kafr (unbelivers, idolaters). First they believe in the same God, then they >don't, and all the confusion is their fault because they are really kafir >(unbelievers) even though Allah, the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and the Muslim >community say they are believers. All right, as long as you understand that these reactions come from a narrow view and that you don't have to accept the way some people express it. And no-one can declare another to be in kufr until their last work is done. May God take us back in a state of belief, and guide our families to such. Thank you for your note. Fouad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 05:53:50 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23108; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:58:39 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA14829; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:56:58 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA14818; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:56:55 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21388; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:52:27 -0500 Received: from asb11 (sls1.asb.com [165.254.128.11]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02287 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:53:50 -0600 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:53:50 -0600 Message-Id: <199512021753.LAA02287@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: A reply to sufi-bashers (fwd) X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: The MSA-Net, which is open to Muslims, has recently posted attacks on sufis and tasawwuf by some of its contributors who mocked sufism as "rotation", and the moderators themselves (the "Shura") have decided to relegate "sufi posts" to a Digest format which is less directly accessed than the regular format. The following is a vivid response by a young brother who has been Muslim for two years. It is forwarded with permission and his email address is at the bottom of his post. I thought readers on tariqas might be interested in its message. I have deleted the names of actual individuals named. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation -----------begin forwarded post------- > Auzu Billahi Minna shaitani Rajim, > Bismillah Irahman Irahim, > > My Dearest Brothers and Sisters, > Asalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakahatuhu, > > How is it that when we discuss (1) LOVING the Prophet (S) (BELOVED of > ALLAH Himself) , or (2) visiting the graves of muslims (not worshiping > them!) in remembrance of them, or performing Zikr i.e., REMEMBERING > our LORD; or VOLUNTARY FASTING (regardless of the month!) for ALLAH's > sake!, or for the sake of fighting and CONTROLLING OUR NAFS in GREATER > JIHAD, again for ALLAH's sake! we hear of the Shura's "UN-style" > resolution to limit "SUFI" posts (when we all know it is to limit the > SUFIS's posts!). > > First of all, the issue has never been about "sufism", but about > Islam, and what is allowed in it or not! > Second if you call what I reffered to in caps above Sufism!, then > WHERE IS ISLAM? Indeed you are lost! > Third, with all the previous hot talks, and name calling, and > calomnious remarks made by some like (names deleted), > , and others who hide behind codes! etc.., HOW IS IT THAT YOU > ATTACK THE SUFIS! > > Is it because we obey Allah and make salawat on our Beloved Prophet (S), > and praise Prophet (S) in every way as ordered in Qur'an! > > Is it because we follow the Sunnah to the letter like Sayidina Ibn > Umar(RAA) as in the story when he took his horse the other way, in > order to follow the very tracks that Rasulullah (S) left some time > before His passing? > > Is it because we fast of our own chosing, when it is not required yet > allowed and practiced by millions for centuries before us i.e., by the > majority of muslims? > > Is it our wearing the turban. The very reason that when you yourselves > took it out of your heads and replaced it with that italian restaurant > table cloth, you lost your honor and are now being regarded so poorly > by the rest of the world. > > That was the way of Rasulullah (s) and thererfore Sunnah! How many > muslims today don't even wear a coufi to cover their heads? Even for > Jum'a prayer! Yet you bash Us! > > Is it because we, (the majority of us being new muslims) want to > follow the Sunnah to the letter when others instead just want to show > off their beards and do the minimum and go the other way? > > Is it because we live our Islam and when so many leave it? > > Is it because we believe Rasulullah (S) to be alive and always with us > that we are called rotating? > > Secret #1: > You are so blind my friends that you don't even see that as Allah > (SWT) said in Qur'an in Surat-ul Asr: "When you see people enter the > Religion of Allah in crowds, know that the Hour is coming"... > > Well I, my Brothers and Sisters,(and Allah hears me!) have witnessed a > whole group of 200 people or more in a symposium, after a talk from my > spiritual master say "Ashadu Anla Ilaha Ilallah, wa Ashadu Anna > Muhammadan Rasulullah(S)". And smaller numbers are customary ! > Ah! what a beautiful Rotation indeed! Al Hamdulilah!!! > > As some leave the love of the Prophet(S) or at the least compromise > it for themselves and for others, the are millions entering the > religion of Allah today, and I am one of them. And those people > certainly do not enter through your doors. > > Allah gave them much more intelligence than you the plotters (as AllAh > is the Best of Plotters), and they recognize your dry, hypocritical > ways (as the entire net recognizes this one!); and it comes into one > ear and goes out the other. > > But when they meet the true followers of Rasulullah(s) you see them > happy; you see them having more love for Rasulullah (s) than > yourselves and you don't understand why. > > And perhaps starting innocently yet misguided by shaitan you ask "how > could this be" "we are the arabs", or "we are the born muslims" , > "this is our religion, we will always know it better than them" (and > that is pride!), and just like the children of Abraham (as) you think > yourself above others and you start teaching your arrogant views and > (I quote you!): > "Bida!, Shirk, Haram, kafir, munafiqun, innovators, etc.. ) you don't > hear anybody say that but you. Am I wrong? Of course I am! > > > Hasha! [NEVER!] This is Allah's religion and the only way is through > Rasulullah(S) or those who follow Him 100%, who can safely guide us. > Not you when venom regularly comes out of the mouths, and one day > follow Allah (SWT) and the next day shaitan or nafs or run after > dunya. > > Didn't Rasulullah (s) say "Oh! Allah, do not leave me to my ego for the > blink of an eye". How can you be so proud and so disrespectful of > pious people and true Ulema and Saints and discredit them, bash them, > and think that because you have a brain, you can just read the book and > learn the Sunnah through hadith of which so many of them you > disrespect, or call false! > > My friends, the knowledge of the book is from Allah (SWT) and what > has been decoded from it and the Sunnah itself have been transmitted > with integrity since the Prophet (S) and Sahaba to the true inheritors > who are the scholars who practice what they know (Alimun Aamil). > They are the ones who do not carry books, books carry them! They are > not like donkeys carrying books. Instead they are riding their Nafs > like a Burak into knowledge. > > Rasulullah (s) said "to get to Allah, follow me!" Only those who love > someone will follow that person! If you don't love Him tell me how > you follow Him! I wonder! You might as well have been hit by a book > falling from heaven! > > He is our Love; So we celebrate the Prophet's birthday when you don't! > and you prevent others from celebrating it, yet you love your > Christmas vacations!; we make salawats and praises to Him (s), when > you, you say "He is but a dead man now". > > We say: "Asalamu Alaika ya Rasulullah(s)". You call that Bida! > Don't you know that Rasulullah (s) said "I am Alive and fresh in my > grave. Don't you know that Allah (SWT) said that the martyrs are alive > and fed and are well cared for in the grave. How much more Rasulullah > (S) the Pride of Creation! Wake up! > > You don't even know your Prophet (S)! And what is it that you > recite after two rakaats? Don't you know that it is "Asalamu Alaika > Ayun Nabii (S)", Present, not Past tence! as if he is in front of > you! And He is!!! > > And those who start as "kafir" like you call them so often; by > Allah's Grace they start listening to the true inheritors of > Rasulullah (S), with humility (not pride like you!); > > Then they come in association with people the world over (not like you > playing ping pong, staying amongst yourselves and talking politics all > day long!), and not praying Sunnah, yet running out of the Masjid after > prayer to start talking again. > > They chant zikr and recite the names of Allah in songs and silently > and they are happy, as Allah said in Qur'an "by the recitation of the > names of Allah, Hearts are made Happy". > > And there they go, miraculously, from a state of Kufr to that of being > the first people to be at the doors for zikr every thursday night. > > And there they go from depression to one day coming to you and saying > Asalamu Alaikum and reciting Fatiha, when you are running the other > way, to the west, omitting the proper greetings and without islamic > dress, fearing to appear backwards. Astaghfirullah!!! Who is it that > are the real losers? > > And there they go again, the new muslims, learning Qur'an, almost > eating it when you, you run after worldly knowledge or a Dr. degree > from a Western University whose general student body you hate. > Masha Allah! I know you so well! > > And there they continue, one day surprising you with knowledge. Where > did they get it. Not from books!. You asked "who is financing those > Sufis?" Al Hamdulilllah! It is Allah (SWT) and Love of His Beloved > Prophet (S) Himself! As He (SWT) referring to them said in Qur'an : > like a seed that shoots from the ground and becomes a small tree that > in the end stands on its own, strong, and enraging the neighbor. > > Who cares if the neighbor is not happy. Al Hamdulillh! Allah is happy > with us and supports us "for they that the sheperd gathers surely > enter in crowds through our door". Love is the secret, but like honey, > only the Beautiful, sincerely working Bees can produce it. > > And I personnaly know of hundreds of trees like this; whole gardens > even. When you stand like people still at a party where no one is > coming!!! AH!, Ah!, Ah! > > "My dear friends, just close down your shops, they are empty. Ours is > very open. In fact all are welcome. In fact, "why are they closing the > gates to Heaven? Who are they? They are so tuff!" > > In truth my Brothers and Sisters, it is Asr time. Come and see the > people in our store. We sell love, compassion and mercy. We don't say > "kafir, you are going to hell", we say "Servant of God here is the way > of Muhammad (S) to your Salvation". The shop gets full and the people > are happy. Not because we rotate (I'd rather be fishing myself!) but > because we go slowly, kindly; We don't beat them with Bida and shirk > and so on, we tell them about their Prophet (S) until they love Him and > next thing you know they make others to love him. And as they > willingly take Shahada we know that they are innocent like babies and > better than us, who have sinned since then. That is the kind way, the > gentle way, the patient way, the way of Sufis. This is the way of > Rasulullah(S), and Allah is supporting us big time!!!. > > How is it that you, with all your US bought technology (and they > cheated you big time in that war too!!!, hein?) with all your printing > presses editing innovation, and all your Hi-tech telecommunication > services, and all your cash; How is it that you do not spread Islam, > that you weaken it and say nothing when Bosnians are Killed, yet only > open you mouths to say "don't love Prophet (S)", when we, sufis, like > Shaik Jamil, are fighting in Technia in the Caucasus and Bosnia!; when > the Sahaba, because they learned Qur'an and Sunnah by living with the > Prophet(S) like murids to their rightly guided Shaik spread the > majority of Islam around the world in 50 to 100 years, when there were > no highways like todays?!!! Obviously our approach is closer to theirs > than yours! > > How is it that we, Prophet (s) loving and praising authentic sufis, > following Sunnah and Sharia to the letter, are criticized and hassled > by the "Shura"? Why this ugly evil look in the eyes, and anger and > pain in the hearts. Did anybody not like my poems? Al Hamdulillah! > a lot of people did. > > It is simple, If Rasulullah(s) were to come today, who would accept > without seeing and say "We believe Ya Rasulullah" In truth, it is > the loving and the repentant; not the proud! > > You asked " Who supports the Sufis?" > > IT IS THE LOVE OF RASULULLAH (S) AND THE BARAKA OF ALLAH (SWT) AND > THEIR LOVE FOR US AS WE ARE INVOLVED IN SHARIA ABIDING, NAFS > DESTROYING, and shaitan BOTHERING, and PEOPLE GATHERING. > > OH! ALLAH, the internet belongs to you, not to ANY OF US. I need no > proofto know that! > > YA ALLAH WE LOVE YOU AND WE LOVE YOUR PROPHET (S) and HIS UMMAH!. > >> > From Little Jannah with Love.. > > Husayn... > > >___________________________ >JFusenig@symantec.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 07:13:50 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28695; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:16:23 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA15994; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:14:48 -0500 Received: from j51.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA15989; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:14:45 -0500 Received: (from zaineb@localhost) by j51.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA17813; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:13:51 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:13:50 -0500 (EST) From: Zaineb Istrabadi To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Allah, or God? In-Reply-To: <199512021753.LAA02276@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaykum and greetings to everyone. Thank you, Fouad for your answer below with which I agree whole-heartedly. With best wishes to all, Zaineb On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Fouad Haddad wrote: > In reply to Mariam131@aol.com: > > >Why are Muslims telling people of Christian background that "Muslims and > >Christians believe in the same God", using exactly those words? > > Because it is true, at least I believe so, and I am a Muslim with a > Christian background. And the members of my family who are observant or > religious all beleive the same thing, whether they are Christians or > Muslims. And I can tell you also that this is the common belief of the > people of my country (Lebanon). > > Muslims say > >this knowing full well the Christians believe in God, The Father - that often > >only "The Father" is used since "God" and "The Father" are synonymous. > > Fine, and this is true metaphorically speaking, not biologically. > > >Later, when people of Christian background have married or become otherwise > >involved in working with Muslims, they are informed that Allah is 'The' God > >who is not referred to or thought of as The Father. > > Arab Christians also use the name "Allah". And, yes, the name "Father" is > not used in Islam. But Muslims may say: "God loves you like a father," "God > loves you more than a mother loves her child." > > When a person of > >Christian backgound tries to work through this they are informed, (by many > >Muslims who have not wanted to bother with finding out where Allah is in > >Christian theology), that they are confused, and they and their families are > >kafr (unbelivers, idolaters). First they believe in the same God, then they > >don't, and all the confusion is their fault because they are really kafir > >(unbelievers) even though Allah, the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and the Muslim > >community say they are believers. > > All right, as long as you understand that these reactions come from a narrow > view and that you don't have to accept the way some people express it. And > no-one can declare another to be in kufr until their last work is done. May > God take us back in a state of belief, and guide our families to such. > Thank you for your note. > > Fouad > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 10:41:04 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15179; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:41:53 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA01497; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:41:07 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA01492; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:41:04 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:41:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199512022041.PAA01492@europe.std.com> Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.114]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:46:46 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:59 AM 12/2/95 PST, you wrote: > Message-ID: red-42-msg951202190058MTP[01.51.00]000000a3-14346 > >Alaikum as-Salam. > >It's still in print so the publisher can be contacted directly. If this >work were done, note that there are several volumes of commentary by >Nicholson as well as the original text (both available from the same >publisher) that could be useful in such a work. Even if there's a >copyright issue, note that the publisher might be interrested in making >a CD version available either by themselves or through a cooperative >effort. Please let me know if and when such a work is available and if >you need help in producing it. > Greetings, This writer too, would be very interested in such a CD. We would offer it for sale in our bookstore and it would be of great interest to me personally to own one. It would be particularly useful if aone were produced with a search engine and other tools on board. Warmest regards, Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 10:47:12 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17198; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:47:44 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA01936; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:47:16 -0500 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA01931; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:47:14 -0500 From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzskp17773; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:47:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA29307 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:47:12 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <951202154710_62956381@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: dear Jabriel and true worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >>Certtainly the Rabia who refuses to look outside at a sprind day and chides the servant girl who who invites her todo so, and says to her come inside and be with the Creator rather than with the distraction of spring and its frivolusness eludes to this.<<< And then there was the master who suggested that one ought not be stuck inside within their own psyche and ought to go ouside and be with the creator. And then there was Rumi,the poem I'm sure you know that goes something like: In the spring, there are roses and pomegranet flowers in the garden. If you do not come, these do not matter. If you DO come, these do not matter. Praise god for these two insomnnias. And the difference between them! >>I with a wish to be emmersed in an Ocean of Love where individuation does not matter elludes to this.<< Are you reffering to this emmersion as a form of annhiliation. If not, then, as I know it, "diving into" is not a form of annhilation but self acknowledgement and recognigion, ultimately it is revelation. This is what I know as awakening, while illumintion is identified with a kind of death in the sense that ones existence is considered darkness compared to the light but in actuallity is simply a lesser amount of light that is in a sense obliterated as it rises into the One Light. Toghether, individuality is not lost as boundaries expand. This is easily seen in everyday encounters with beauty, with which you are quite familiar. In everyday language, if you were to say "It is beautiful, it has a great deal of Soul." I would understand you to mean that not only is it's beauty deep, in the sense that it touches me in some deep abstract place which I know (somehow) can also touch you, i.e. it is not just a matter of 'taste'. At the same time, I'm not expecting that this object would have less character, but more! A good example: Chartres Catherdral, or the Blue Mosque. You don't have to be Arabic or European to be moved by these places, they reach right down to our soul, and beyond. Yet, they are very much individuals. Uniqueness, enhanced by thier universality! Cool, hunh? love Asha From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 11:45:06 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16226; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:44:21 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA10182; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:43:38 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA10177; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:43:36 -0500 Received: from asb15 (sls5.asb.com [165.254.128.15]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA05786 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:45:06 -0600 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:45:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199512022345.RAA05786@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Allah, or God? X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Wa alaykum as-salam, Zaineb, I hope all is well with you and your work. Fouad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 08:22:50 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10137; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:51:40 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA14809; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:50:59 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA14800; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:50:57 -0500 From: omegapub@taconic.net Received: from host.taconic.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02373; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:49:45 -0500 Received: from ch_anx_p20.taconic.net by host.taconic.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/13Jul95-1105AM) id AA09793; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:50:39 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 16:22:50 PST Subject: inside/outside To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >>Certainly the Rabia who refuses to look outside at a spring day and chides the servant girl who invites her to do so, and says to her come inside and be with the Creator rather than with the distraction of spring and its frivolusness eludes to this.<<< there was a knock at my door which I finally answered, saying come in but a voice said come out and I didn't know where to go * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Abi'l-Khayr E-mail: omegapub@taconic.net Date: 12/02/95 Time: 16:22:50 "Above law is love; above love is the Beloved." --Inayat Khan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 19:54:41 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08609; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:58:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA19326; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:56:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA19314; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:56:22 -0500 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18617; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:53:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:53:41 +0001 (EST) From: Steve H Rose Subject: tariqas welcome/information message To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. I am sending this copy of the tariqas welcome/information message to all tariqas members, since it includes helpful information about subscribing etc. Please keep it for later use. Thanks! habib rose host of tariqas Assalamu alaikum (may peace be with you). Welcome to 'tariqas'! 'tariqas' is a discussion group focusing on spiritual paths/ways/orders. The word "tariqas" is Arabic, and literally means "paths" or "ways." It is applied to the various Sufi Orders (e.g. the Mevlevi tariqa; the Naqshbandi tariqa). Members of all Sufi Orders, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, are welcome to participate in our group. But, this group is not exclusive to Muslims, or even to those following a specifically Sufi path. 'tariqas' is intended for any person involved in any spiritual path, who is open to sharing in an open and honest way with others - who may be involved in the same path, or one which may appear, on the surface at least, to be very different. In general, most of the participants in 'tariqas' are involved in "paths of the heart" - of love. To join 'tariqas', send a message to majordomo@world.std.com The subject line should be left blank. The content of the message should be: subscribe tariqas Majordomo is a program which helps automate the process of running this list. Among the other commands that you can send to majordomo@world.std.com are: unsubscribe tariqas (if you want to drop out of the list - either termporarily or permanently) who tariqas (to get a list of the email addresses of members) info tariqas (to get this message) Paricipating in the group is easy - all you have to do is to send a message to tariqas@world.std.com and your message will automatically be forwarded to all members of the group. All members of the group are encouraged to feel comfortable to contribute to the discussion. Since most of us are involved in "paths of the heart" - and since we all have a heart - we all have something to say. Please try to avoid sending messages to individual group members with a "cc" (carbon copy) to the 'tariqas' group: this results in unnecesary duplication of messages. All members of the group automatically get any message sent to 'tariqas'. An archive has been set up for the 'tariqas' group. ALL LETTERS WRITTEN TO THIS GROUP WILL, INSH'ALLAH, BE STORED IN THE ARCHIVE. If you do not want your letters stored in the archive, do not send them to the tariqas@world.std.com address (you may of course send individual letters to any member of our group - or make up your own informal list of addresses). We are in the process of moving our archive to a new location, and will inform you as soon as it is set up. Looking forward to sharing with you. Yours, Habib Rose habib@world.std.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 14:03:17 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10433; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 21:03:17 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA23951; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 21:02:38 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA23946; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 21:02:35 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04550; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 20:03:17 -0600 Message-Id: <9512030203.AA04550@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: A reply to sufi-bashers (fwd) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 20:03:17 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett In-Reply-To: <199512021753.LAA02287@UNiX.asb.com> from "Fouad Haddad" at Dec 2, 95 11:53:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 267 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam dear brother fouad: thank you for forwarding the "sufi-bashing" piece on to me! many of the things that husayn said have the ring of truth unfortunately. thank you again and give my salaam to your family and to husayn. wasalaam, abdul ghani From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Dec 2 11:31:25 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23930; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:30:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00605; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:29:56 -0500 Received: from ix12.ix.netcom.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00600; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:29:54 -0500 Received: from by ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id TAA29987; Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:31:25 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:31:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199512030331.TAA29987@ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: naeem1@ix.netcom.com (Naeem Khan ) Subject: Re: There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I too was fascinated and drawn to Gurdjieff and had the same results as you. But one thing was clear for me in the Gurdjieff teachings- You need a living Master like Gurdgieff to guide you. All the writings of Gurdjieff led me to show that Sufi Masters were the Wisest and most powerful. Thanks to God, on a recent trip to the Middle East I was led to Shaykh Nazim Al-Haqqani. In a split second I knew I have found my Master Guide. Shaykh Nazim is the world leader of the Naqshbandi Sufi order. My experiences with Shaykh Nazim eclipse all of Gurdjieff's work to zero. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Dec 4 02:59:12 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20187; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 00:10:15 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09146; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 00:09:40 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09138; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 00:09:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id QAA00804; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:09:15 +1100 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:59:12 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi To: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, As an update on this, I have _heard_ (from my brother, who often knows these things) that copyright on literary works usually expires 50 years after the author's death. Assuming this also holds for translations, R. A. Nicholson passed away in 1945 (according to our university library catalogue), which would mean that the copyright on his translation of the Mathnawi expires (or expired) this year. On Sat, 2 Dec 1995 omegapub@taconic.net wrote: > The total pages in the 3 volumes comes to 1400+. It would be a > healthy-sized text file to work with, and the cost of printing it > out would rival the cost of having a nicely bound edition. That's true, it would be large, but the advantages to an online version would be: * more people could access it (especially if it was available from a world wide web site, for instance, or on CD-ROM, as others have suggested) * the search capabilities available with a computer would also make it more accessible. As for the document's size, it makes the task a large one, but not impossible. For instance, an English translation of Sahih al-Bukhari (the most authentic collection of hadith for Sunni Muslims) is available on-line at several world wide web sites, all 11 (?) volumes of it! If Sahih al-Bukhari is possible to put online, I'm sure the Mathnawi is doable as well. However, it is possibly best done by a team... I have to consider it more (and hope for direction) before committing myself to such a large project.... but I do think that an online version of the Mathnawi would be a useful guide for many of us (especially myself). Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 04:09:02 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12635; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:09:03 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07920; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:07:41 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07915; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:07:39 -0500 Received: from asb22 (sls12.asb.com [165.254.128.22]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA11294 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:09:02 -0600 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:09:02 -0600 Message-Id: <199512031609.KAA11294@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: inside/outside X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to: >>>Certainly the Rabia who refuses to look outside at a spring day >and chides the servant girl who invites her to do so, and says to >her come inside and be with the Creator rather than with the >distraction of spring and its frivolusness eludes to this.<<< Not that spring is frivolous, it is truly beautiful and we should rejoice at it and contemplate it when it comes, however, the heart of saints is a perpetual spring which does not take accept a second spring as a partner. That's why Bayazid, when he was asked: "How is Bayazid this morning?" answered: "There is no more "morning" and "evening" for Bayazid. Certainly for us to "come inside" with them at that time, is preferable than for them to "come outside" with us. May God give us this great gift! Fouad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 05:05:32 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13024; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:10:32 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA08080; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:10:31 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11942; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:05:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07717; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:05:32 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:05:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199512031505.KAA07717@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Dec 3 10:05:29 1995 Return-Path: Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA07691; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:05:29 -0500 Received: from netra (netra.voyageur.ca) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11382; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:04:09 -0500 Received: from ts1-dl-18.voyageur.ca by netra (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA18797; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:05:36 GMT Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:05:35 GMT Message-Id: <9512030905.AA18797@netra> X-Sender: dhalpert@mail.voyageur.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: dhalpert@voyageur.ca (Don Halpert) Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 05:23:24 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21397; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:26:15 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA08733; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:25:46 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA08724; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:25:44 -0500 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16910; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:24:54 -0500 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa26202; 3 Dec 95 10:24 EST Received: from [128.143.3.222] (ara-mac-222.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.222]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.7.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA95711 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:24:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199512031524.KAA95711@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:23:24 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: travelling Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A as-salaamu 'alaykum, dear friends i will be travelling to the middle east again for a month or so. i have sent my unsubsribe to the majordomo but hope to read the tariqah posts on return from the archives and also to re-subsribe on return, inshallah. friends wishing to be in contact can post me directly at nd4n@virginia.edu. the mail should be read twice weekly and if there is anything urgent it can be sent on to me. peace and best wishes. A. N. Durkee Green Mountain From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 01:26:03 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28237; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:24:34 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA15231; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:24:23 -0500 Received: from miwok.nbn.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA15224; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:24:21 -0500 Received: from [199.4.64.32] (srf-32.nbn.com [199.4.64.32]) by miwok.nbn.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA00972 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:24:11 -0800 X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:26:03 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Subject: Re: There is no greener pasture (God) but greener pasture (God) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 7:31 PM 12/2/95, Naeem Khan wrote: >...one thing was clear for me in the Gurdjieff teachings- You >need a living Master like Gurdgieff to guide you. ...In a split second I >knew I have found my Master The most important lesson to me was that "it" generally isn't found in concepts, words, books or the worship of them. Bob Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Dec 3 01:25:33 1995 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28196; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:24:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA15214; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:23:53 -0500 Received: from miwok.nbn.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA15207; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:23:51 -0500 Received: from [199.4.64.32] (srf-32.nbn.com [199.4.64.32]) by miwok.nbn.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA00957 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:23:40 -0800 X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 09:25:33 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Subject: RE: Copyright on Nicholson's translation of the Mathnawi Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >While I am not expert enough to answer the question whether the >copyright still holds on Nicholson's translation of Rumi's >Mathnawi--the original copyrights being in the period 1926-1930... In much of the world it holds for at least 50 years after the author's death. The U.S. used to be shorter however there would be little financial incentive for any prospective publisher to limit themselves to the U.S. market. Bob Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi ==