From: IMC@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU (I. Marc Carlson) Subject: Re: Who/What is Mabon? Date: 27 Aug 1993 11:49:12 -0500 ~From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) > Starhawk seems to use Mabon as an alternative name for the autumnal > equinox, but where does the word come from? Does it mean anything > apart from "autumnal equinox"? > I've looked in the Golden Bough, Green's Natural Magic, and > Campbell's books, but have found no clue. Anyone? You won't find it. As a ritual it exists without a historical precedent, aside from the the few ancients that bothered to observe the Equinoxes. The equinox celebration has been adapted by moderns in order to fill out the circle of the year. Mabon, I believe means "tree" or "branch" in Welsh, and may be found in the title of the "Mabonogion". OTOH, the holiday of Eostara takes its name from the Anglo-Saxon month that came up in the middle of the Spring while Litha/Lissa takes its name from the summer month which was often extended in sequence of months used to fill out the Anglo-Saxon lunar calender, when it needed to make up for lost time on the solar year. Lady Day is, of course, taken from the traditional name for the Feast of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. I should mention that the Ancient Hellenic festival of Pyanepsia, celebrating Apollo as Pythia (and therefore possibly continued on from the time Before Apollo became Pythia) occurs on the 7th day of the month of Pyanepsia, which begins on the 3rd new moon after the Summer Solstice. On other words, 22 September. Yours for better historical research, Marc C IMC@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU === From: mla22@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.M. Smith) Date: 31 Aug 1993 13:49:46 GMT Just a thought on this. "Mabon" is very close indeed to the word "mab", meaning "young man" or "son". (The usual word for tree is "coeden" but I'm not too sure about branch...) Anyway, given that "Modron" looked very like a root word for mother - not modern Welsh as far as I know, I was taught "mam", but it still looks like "madre" etc, I always thought of Mabon son of Modron as "the son of the mother", especially since his mother is mentioned in Culhwch and Olwen. It seemed rather interesting... I have a feeling that I had a source for this apart from my guessing, but I can't remember what it was!! - Perhaps Gwyn Jones' introduction to the Everyman Mabinogion? Does anyone know anything else about this character and his origins? Ali === From: IMC@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU (I. Marc Carlson) Date: 1 Sep 1993 11:17:02 -0500 ~From: Fred >Here's the info I got when I asked a while back on alt.mythology: >---------------- >Well, I can give you what noted Welsh mythology scholar Patrick K. Ford >has to say in his translation >_The_Mabinogi_and_Other_Medieval_Welsh_Tales_: >"MABON, son of Modron, stolen from his mother when three nights old >and imprisoned until Arthur freed him. The _mabinogi_ may have >originally told of his birth and exploits. His doublet occurs, perhaps, >in the name Mabon son of Mellt ('lightning')."(p.193) [Text deleted for space] >My personal thoughts on the matter are that he is perhaps similar to >the Hindu Soma, the sacrificial liquid personified as a god, who is >rescued from the demons (sometimes from inside a mountain), and to >the Norse "mead of poetry," personified as Kvasir, which is stolen >from the giants from inside a mountain by Odinn. Why thank you, Ali. You've done a good job. Looking at the stuff posted here, as well as hitting the "tomes" over the long weekend, well, I sit corrected. Mabon mab Modron, aka Mabon mab Mellt, aka Maponos map Matrona, and quite possibly aka Grannos in Ireland, is the "Great Youth", and is related by the Romans to Apollo for his healing, illuminatory and eloquance attributes. As Mabinog is a term for an aspirant to the title of Bard, it would appear that the "mabinogion" is a collection of material that a Mabinog could be expected to be proficient with. Mabon, along with Gweir and Llyr, or Greit and Lludd, was one of the three Great Prisoners of Britain, stolen on the 3rd night after his birth. He was found after many years, after only the oldest of creatures knew where he had been taken. He rode on a horse that was faster than the waves as well. All things considered, he sounds like a version of the Reborn God, and that this festival should be held in spring... Marc IMC@VAX2.UTULSA.EDU === From: paik@cgl.citri.edu.au (Karen Paik) Date: 2 Sep 93 03:00:36 GMT Well, first I checked the dictionary (you would be surprised how much stuff is in the dictionary...) and it didn't list `Mabon'. It did, however, say that `Mab' was the name of a Queen of the Faeries in english literature. A quick check of my copy of the Mabinogion reveals that Mabon, a character's name, comes from the Celtic `Maponos', meaning `Great Son'. Mabon's mother's name, `Madron', decends from `Matrona', meaning `Great Mother'. I think that other person was confused. My copy of the Mabinogion implies that it is the `ogion' half of Mabinogion that means `leaves' or `branches' giving `the branches of Mabon'. May You Burn More Brightly, Andy paik@godzilla.cgl.citri.edu.au === Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 22:29:42 -0400 From: "Bruce C. Findlay" To: ceci@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: What/who is Mabon? Newsgroups: alt.pagan References: In alt.pagan you write: >Starhawk seems to use Mabon as an alternative name for the autumnal >equinox, but where does the word come from? Does it mean anything >apart from "autumnal equinox"? >I've looke in the Golden Bough, Green's Natural Magic, and Campbell's >books, but have found no clue. Anyone? >--Ceci >-- >"They're justified and they're ancient and they like to roam the land, > they don't want to upset the apple cart and they don't want to do any harm, > but if you don't like what they're going to do, > you better not stand in the way, course they're coming through!" The KLF Mabon is the Celtic, therefore some form of Gaelic, holiday that falls on the night of the fall equinox. "Mabon- on the night of fall equinox-when at last the Old God dies from the Spears Wound, then is the fruit of theEarth given freely to mortals. The Body of the corn is caried into the Otherwold by the Trhee Red Queens, there to await His awakening. The Head of the God is buried i the Earth, to maintain the Bounty of the Earth. We make offering to the Earth Mother who receives the King into Her body." Ian Corrigan, _The Portal_ 1992. You probably knew all this, but I like Ian and promote his writing at every opportunity.