From: bbeistle@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Bronwyn S. Beistle)
Subject: Re: Neopaganism
Date: 14 May 1994 03:48:48 GMT

: ipfoot@ic.ac.uk (Ian Paul Foot) writes:
: <snip>
: >At a recent talk here in London, Dr. Ron Hutton said that he has now 
: >revised his estimate of the number of people killed during the 
: >"burning times" down to around 40,000.  Contrast this with the 
: >(fictitious) 9 million mentioned in the song (although on one day
: >193 women were burned in a single village in Germany).
: <snip>

Brook Schoenfield (brook@crl.com) wrote:
: Up to now, I've been pretty much out of this debate (how many) 'cause I'm 
: not that scholarly, and, really, I wasn't there (this life, or others 
: <g>).  But, I did just recently read a seemingly rather well researched book 
: (awful politics, good tidbits and factual history) by Pennethorne Hughes, 
: Witchcraft.  I do notmuch care for Mr. Hughes' analysis, but I want to 
: present some facts for discussion.

: He sites the following to support the idea that the numbers are rather 
: large: 600 in a single bishop in Bamberg, 900 in a single year in 
: Wurzburg and Nuremberg, 200/year. 1000 in a year at Como, 900 in 15 years 
: at Nancy, 500 in 3 months in Geneva.  In one single execution in 
: Toulouse, 400.  These kind of numbers begin to add up fairly 
: significantly rather quickly. (all from the 15th and 16th centuries).

: It is important (and I didn't realize this before) that Britain was spared
: a great deal of this, because it was not illegal to be a witch unless
: someone was poisoned until quite late (1560 or so).  The burning times
: didn't really come with all their ferocity to Britain.  I believe that
: burning was never really used much anywhere in Britain or Ireland.

: As I said, I don't care for the writing of Hughes, but he speaks with 
: authority about the records.  

: Comments from my more learned friends?

: Brook Schoenfield: brook@innosys.com brook@crl.com
: "..desire cracks open the gates. If you're ready it will take you through.
: But nothing lasts forever, time is the destroyer, the wheel turns again and
: again, watch out it will take you through." - Starhawk

Um. I'm afraid this is inflammatory but I'm going to say it anyway. I
have a hard time with the numbers game. I've noticed it played at
times between Jewish folk and African-Americans--a sort of competition
as to who had the most killed--the Holocaust vs. the centuries of
slavery. I know we're not doing that here, but does it really matter
whether it's 9 million or 40,000? I mean, once I get past a few--maybe
ten--thousand people killed for no reason, it seems immaterial, and
almost disrespectful of the suffering of those involved, to tote it up
in terms of numbers--

I guess I get the feeling that we're saying:  "Oh, it's not really that
bad. Those early Wiccans were so exaggerated. Why, it's only forty
thousand people, not nine million!"

_Is_ that what this thread is saying?

--
Bronwyn Beistle		
					

There aren't going to be any damned
permits! How can you get a permit
to do a damned illegal thing?

Leonard McCoy