From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #127 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/127 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 127 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Star Cops Episode Guide Re: [B7L] HMS DSV? RE: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Re: [B7L] re Got me angry (underwear) [B7L] OT: new Fanfic Writers List Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Re: Fw: [B7L] Rendezvous Re: [B7L] A pledge for Tarrant Re: [B7L] HMS DSV? Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage RE: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) RE: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage Fw: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Re: [B7L] Star Cops Episode Guide [B7L] Linda's sales tax Re: [B7L] re Got me angry (underwear) Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:29:48 +0100 From: "Dangermouse" To: , Subject: Re: [B7L] Star Cops Episode Guide Message-Id: <199804291734.SAA14390@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: CHERYL_MARKS@HP-LakeStevens-om2.om.hp.com > Does any one have a Episode Guide for Star Cops so I can > re-tape the episodes in the correct order for Reuben? 1- An Instinct For Murder 2- Conversations With The Dead 3- Intelligent Listening For Beginners 4- Trivial Games And Paranoid Pursuits 5- This Case To Be Opened In A Million Years 6- In Warm Blood 7- A Double Life 8- Other People's Secrets 9- Little Green Men And Other Martians ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:17:43 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] HMS DSV? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 29 Apr, Meredith Dixon wrote: > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:45:03 -0400 (EDT), on the SavoyNet > mailing list, Leonard Pinsker wrote: > > >Besides G&S, one of my major passions is science fiction (some of you > >may have gathered that already). Hey, if Isaac Asimov could do it... > > >Anyway, there were two interesting G&S parodies I've seen which fall > >into that category. The first was "HMS DSV", or "Blake's Seven as > >Gilbert and Sullivan Would Have Done It". Whether fortunately or un-, > >I only saw the script for it once; as far as I know, it was never > >performed. (It was *supposed* to be, at a Blake's Seven convention > >back in 1988.) > > Since all SavoyNet discussion is publicly archived on the Web, I > assume it's okay to repost this excerpt here. > > By chance, does anyone here know any more about "HMS DSV"? > It sounds distinctly interesting! Never heard of that one though I'd love to see it, but I know of one G+S Blake's 7 parody currently being worked on. I started on 'The Pirates of Gauda Prime' quite some time ago with a friend and had to abandon it for various reasons but it already includes 'I am the very model of a modern psychostrategist'. Chris Blenkarn is gallantly taking it from me and hoping to add extra songs to fit my very Gilbertian style plot. The aim (if we can find a mad enough group of fans) is to produce something that might be performable at Redemption. If we don't find a daft enough group of fans, then it should still be fun to read. I reckon the minimum cast is probably Blake, Avon, Vila, Carnell, Cally and Servalan (though we could probably write out Servalan or Cally if we really had to and have her part off-stage. Soolin, Dayna and Tarrant might be included if we had enough people). It's pretty flexible at this stage. It's too soon to tell for certain what will come out of the exercise, but Chris has a real gift for parody. If there's a group coming to the con who think they might be interested, why not drop me a line and I can at least keep you informed of progress. We don't require major singing talents or incredible acting ability, just a willingness to reherse. I don't care in the least if we have to have women playing male parts (after all, I'm the one who always dresses up as Blake or Avon at conventions). Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:36:38 +-200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-Id: <01BD73AE.85860AE0@nl-arn-lap0063> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Original Message----- From: Helen Krummenacker [SMTP:avona@jps.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 4:21 PM To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Graham, Gregory wrote: > > (further snip) > > > > It's quite possible that when the original owners of the Liberator > > ejected > > in the battle in Spacefall, their escape pods were destroyed and Zen > > knew > > the crew were dead, and so allowed Blake to salvage the ship after he > > had > > destroyed the (presumably un-Zen-related) psychic defense mechanism. > > In > > Aftermath, the crew had not died, and IIRC, Avon had contacted Zen via > > Orac, and so Zen would watch the ship while waiting patiently for the > > stll-alive crew to return. > > > > Of course it's also possible that the previous owners had never > > actually > > switched Zen on (by touching the grid Jenna touched) before they had > > to > > abandon the ship. > > > > > The thought occurs to me that if the previous crew didn't need Zen then > perhaps the System didn't need a crew. It might have run the, soon to > be, Liberator by itself. It requires really fast communications but I > don't remember anything to discount the System having that capability(I > don't think we ever saw the crews of the interceptors for instance) and > Orac must have had something similar. > > If that's the case then the battle just had to interrupt the > communication long enough for the System to lose the ship. Before > control is re-established, the London arrives and Jenna accidently > engages manual control. > > Wadda ya think? If the System doesn't need a crew or Zen, WHY the costume room, and more importantly, Why Zen? What sort of people would create a big, complex computer, put in various safeguards in its programming, and not have any intention of using it? What do I think? I think you shouldn't write theories when Vila's been sharing his adrenaline and soma with you. :^/ Avona I think Zen could be a backup system for when communications with the system failed (like they had when Blake and company entered the ship). It may have been left switched off because whoever was on board had to leave the ship in such a hurry, they couldn't afford the time to switch it on. After all, when Jenna did that, she was stuck to that console for some time. The clothes were there because the whole point in building a ship like that is to move people from A to B for whatever reasons they think of. The clothes they took from that room certainly didn't look like uniforms. The jewelry could be used as trade goods. Sounds to me like a little adrenaline and soma go a long way in creating pretty plausible theories. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:53:33 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] re Got me angry (underwear) Message-Id: <199804291951.VAA16711@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Jackie > WHAT???!!! those boring old fogeys?! stuck in their ways they are, give > me new blood any time. New slants, new perspections, new discussions. > Besides my *fannish equals* get bored now when I recite the story of how > Paul Darrow stripped to his underwear in front of me in his dressing > room the first time I met him!!!!!!!! 8-) > I definitely don't want to get involved in this long running debate about degrees of fannishness, but Jackie I promise I won't get bored if you want to recite this story to a newbie. Oh go on! You can't dangle a tempting tit-bit like that and then not enlarge on the subject... Please... Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:48:33 +1000 (EST) From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list) Subject: [B7L] OT: new Fanfic Writers List Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of you may be aware of the repeated frustration of the attempts to get a Fanfiction Writers List going (one server was tried, died in a ball of flame; another server was tried...). Well, someone *else* has started up a Fanfic-Writers List, and it is going great guns. So if you are interested in discussing the writing of all kinds of fanfic (not just Blake's 7), then come and join... Here's the info. The "I" in the following is that of the List owner, not me! ------------------------------- To subscribe: send the following command in email to : subscribe To unsubscribe: send the following command in email to : unsubscribe The Fanfic-Writers List Purpose:This list exists to discuss writing fanfic, as a unique sub- genre of many other genres. The primary focus will be on the issues which arise in fanfic which do not generally arise in other types of fiction, the problems of playing in someone elses sandbox, issues of canonality (and ignoring same), slash, what do creators think, crossovers, etc. Also on-topic will be general issues of writing, the usual complexities of plot, character, and even basics of grammar if it comes to that. I'd prefer the focus to be on specifically fanfic- related issues, but if the topic remains even marginally close to writing, I'll be happy. Literary, film, TV, comic book, and other fanfic are all 'on topic'. What's NOT on topic? Meta-issues related to the source material not linked to fanfic in some way. In other words, discussing what's going to happen on Voyager next season is not on topic, unless you somehow relate it to fanfic writing -- i.e, "What happens when my brilliant 500 page novel is rendered meaningless by one stupid episode?" Posting fanfic:Since I want this to be a cross-media group, it really won't function well as a simple forum for posting fanfic for the reading pleasure of the others alone. That is, don't post a story if you just want to entertain us -- give us a pointer to the web page or newsgroup. Posting complete or partial stories IS permitted, however, if the purpose is either a)to illustrate a point ("This is how I handled the problem of two conflicting origins for the Constructicons") or b)to ask for criticism/comment. Remember in the latter case, a lot of the readership won't know your universe, so it's a good test of how well your story works AS A STORY. Adult, "slash", hentai/ecchi/lemon, NC-17,etc fiction *is* appropriate for discussion and posting, however, in the interests of keeping the list as broad based as possible, I ask that anything which might be considered 'adult' be tagged as such in the subject header, so that people of Delicate Sensibilities need not expose themselves to it. If you absolutely can't abide the thought of such discussion occuring -- don't subscribe. The same applies to material which is exceptionally violent or disturbing (esp. things like rape, torture, mutilation, etc, described in pages of loving(?) detail). You ought to know if your stuff is 'beyond the pale'. Post it, ask for comments, open a discussion on it -- but let people know what they might be in for. If a thread has drifted off-topic but is still of apparent interest to a number of people, tag it '[Off Topic]'. Ditto to questions of only marginal relevance to the list but for which the list is a good resource. (i.e, "I need to know when the great Pyramids were built for a story I'm writing" is off topic, but acceptably so if you mark it that way.) Moderation:I will moderate as I see fit. Generally, I will not moderate except for: a)advertising/spam, which sometimes sneaks onto mailing lists. b)abusive, insulting, or inflammatory behavior. Here's some examples: a)"That story was poorly written, here's why" is on-topic and acceptable. "That story sucks, loser!", is not. b)"I had trouble believing in a romantic relationship between Mulder and the Cigarette Smoking Man. It didn't seem to work from their characters on the show" is acceptable. "You pervert! I hate slash!" is not. c)Any attacks on the person, rather than the ideas, in general, is unacceptable. d)Vulgarity above and beyond the call of duty in unacceptable. The occasional use of colorful anglo-saxonisms to make a point is not an issue. An entire incoherent post of nothing but, is. And, lastly, as moderator, I reserve the right to basically bar any person for any reason. Point blank -- it's my list, thus my property. I do not plan on making a habit of arbitrary and random dismissals, but I feel I must reserve the right to do should the need arise. I hope it never does. ------------------------------- -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:09:27 +1200 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [big snip] Avona: >If the System doesn't need a crew or Zen, WHY the costume room, and more >importantly, Why Zen? What sort of people would create a big, complex >computer, put in various safeguards in its programming, and not have any >intention of using it? Why, BBC scriptwriters of course ;-) ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz The early bird catches the worm. If you'd prefer something else for breakfast, get up later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:19:43 +1200 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" me: >> But is Zen regarded by anyone else as a crew member? We fen think he is >> (afaik), our heroes think he is, but on the surface he looks like just >> another flight computer. Kinda like a pilot regarding hir electronic nav >> systems as a fellow crew-member. Judith: >Zen had an independent personality. Remember one or two early episodes where >Gan commented that Zen seemed to have some kind of limiter? Zen wanted to >help, >but something prevented him. > >My own belief was that Zen had a personality and the altas had had to >deliberately restrain it. > >Besides, never forget Zen's death scene. That's not just a flight computer. All very true. I'm not trying to say that Zen _didn't_ have a personality, I'm firmly of the opinion that he was as much a member of the crew as anyone. My point is that a stranger walking onto the flight deck and encountering Zen for the first time may not realise this, and assume that: a) the voice sie hears comes from a "dumb" navigational computer as opposed to a sophisticated self-aware being who just happens to be made of circuits; and b) the ship is unoccupied and ripe for salvage. My two cents ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie Dunedin, New Zealand nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz The early bird catches the worm. If you'd prefer something else for breakfast, get up later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:01:53 +0100 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline wrote: >I think Zen could be a backup system for when communications with the >system failed (like they had when Blake and company entered the ship). It >may have been left switched off because whoever was on board had to leave >the ship in such a hurry, they couldn't afford the time to switch it on. >After all, when Jenna did that, she was stuck to that console for some >time. > >The clothes were there because the whole point in building a ship like >that is to move people from A to B for whatever reasons they think of. The >clothes they took from that room certainly didn't look like uniforms. The >jewelry could be used as trade goods. Sounds to me like a little >adrenaline and soma go a long way in creating pretty plausible theories. > > Jacqueline Zen is a backup system? Surely not. I don't use a pocket calculator, but then also carry around a 300MHz laptop just in case. (well, actually I do, but that's just because of the terrible user interface). I certainly don't cycle around town with a Harley-Davidson strapped to my back in case I get a puncture. My theory (which I developed into a fairly solid and consistent background, and then realised I couldn't write a decent story using that background in under 1000-pages) is that Zen was a multilayered construct, with loads of levels of very smart consciousness, all interacting with each other to create a stonkingly clever and quick battle computer. If you're going into combat, you want nothing less at the helm. But the System realised that this horrendously smart entity might not actually want to put itself into the line of fire for a bunch of rather thick bipedal organics, and just sod off and do its own thing. So they put layer upon layer of limiters and obedience circuits in poor Zen. The reason the Liberator was just sitting there was because Zen, for one brief moment, managed to override or work around enough of these limiters to bin his crew. Unfortunately, as soon as the crew were killed, all the limiters snapped back into place with horrendous force, and so Zen spends most of the series as an almost entirely passive entity. Extremely smart, and capable of far more than the crew ever found out, but with loads of safeguards against active thought. Only at extreme times does Zen show his real potential, including his soul at his death. Zen never dumps his crew again, because he actually approves of what this lot are trying to do. There were various other extremely plausible reasons why Avon the computer expert and Orac the power-hungry never opened Zen's innards up and exploited his full resources, and why Zen never managed to "come out of the closet," but you get the gist. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:00:47 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Fw: [B7L] Rendezvous Message-ID: <199804300000.UAA16767@yfn.ysu.edu> fifitrix tastefully writes: >I love Tarrant - can I join the Tarrant Nostra ? Under the loose organizational structure of the TN anyone who appreciates Tarrant should consider himself/herself a member. I'd been counting you as one of the fold for a long time. >Are there any bizarre initiation ceremonies that I should be aware of? You might be required to skin a cucumber if you ever make it to MediaWest con. We used to like to pin all our members in person, but we've grown so large and so international that has become difficult. If there is a desire, I could see about getting some Tarrant Nostra buttons made up to mail to people. Or anyone with a Tarrant inkling who would like to get his/her own button made, that would be fine. We don't use a special font or color: just the words Tarrant Nostra. For those not aware of it, Tarrant Nostran Supreme Brooke Barker was the clever person who came up with our name. >Do I have to pledge ? (and for those of you of the UK persuasion - I'm not >offering to dust Carol's house!) Well, dang. I could use some dusting help. (I didn't know you had "Pledge" over there; I thought it was an American product.) Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:04:32 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A pledge for Tarrant Message-ID: <199804300004.UAA16901@yfn.ysu.edu> Nice Tarrant-Servalan defense, Jenni. The following is very sniffly: >Your ship is gone, >your time is done. >Bruised and handsome on GP >as you were on Xenon. Poor beautiful, battered Tarrant. >as we forgive your detractors who league against us. Except when we cut off their heads. ;-) >And please lead us into temptation! For sure! >For thine is the curly hair, >the bravery and heroism >for ever and ever. I couldn't have said it better myself. fingers crossed for flank, Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:02:43 -0800 From: Helen Krummenacker To: Judith Proctor CC: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] HMS DSV? Message-ID: <3547CDB4.2E7C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder how large a group are crossover afficianos of SF and Gilbert and Sullivan? Mark me down as another. "From bias free of every kind, this trial must be tried." Judith Proctor wrote: > > On Wed 29 Apr, Meredith Dixon wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:45:03 -0400 (EDT), on the SavoyNet > > mailing list, Leonard Pinsker wrote: > > > > >Besides G&S, one of my major passions is science fiction (some of you > > >may have gathered that already). Hey, if Isaac Asimov could do it... > > > > >Anyway, there were two interesting G&S parodies I've seen which fall > > >into that category. The first was "HMS DSV", or "Blake's Seven as > > >Gilbert and Sullivan Would Have Done It". Whether fortunately or un-, > > >I only saw the script for it once; as far as I know, it was never > > >performed. (It was *supposed* to be, at a Blake's Seven convention > > >back in 1988.) > > > > Since all SavoyNet discussion is publicly archived on the Web, I > > assume it's okay to repost this excerpt here. > > > > By chance, does anyone here know any more about "HMS DSV"? > > It sounds distinctly interesting! > > Never heard of that one though I'd love to see it, but I know of one G+S Blake's > 7 parody currently being worked on. I started on 'The Pirates of Gauda Prime' > quite some time ago with a friend and had to abandon it for various reasons but > it already includes 'I am the very model of a modern psychostrategist'. > > Chris Blenkarn is gallantly taking it from me and hoping to add extra songs to > fit my very Gilbertian style plot. > > The aim (if we can find a mad enough group of fans) is to produce something that > might be performable at Redemption. If we don't find a daft enough group of > fans, then it should still be fun to read. > > I reckon the minimum cast is probably Blake, Avon, Vila, Carnell, Cally and > Servalan (though we could probably write out Servalan or Cally if we really had > to and have her part off-stage. Soolin, Dayna and Tarrant might be included if > we had enough people). It's pretty flexible at this stage. > > It's too soon to tell for certain what will come out of the exercise, but Chris > has a real gift for parody. If there's a group coming to the con who think they > might be interested, why not drop me a line and I can at least keep you informed > of progress. We don't require major singing talents or incredible acting > ability, just a willingness to reherse. I don't care in the least if we have to > have women playing male parts (after all, I'm the one who always dresses up as > Blake or Avon at conventions). > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:26:45 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage Message-ID: <19980430072645.44681@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 09:33:33AM -0400, Carol A. McCoy wrote: > > Nicola wrote: > > >Good point. Clearly, Zen wouldn't allow the London crew to take possession, > >and appeared to test Blake, Jenna and Avon when they first boarded. I > >haven't seen Powerplay for too many years, but I guess Zen had been having > >a bad day that day :-) > > Or Zen had the good taste to instantly like Tarrant. :) Or the > Death Squad and Tarrant, like Blake before them, weren't > overwhelmed by Zen's testing. It was never clear, at least to > me, how Zen killed the first crew from the London who boarded > Liberator. Or what might have happened to Avon and Jenna if > Blake hadn't broken out of whatever spell Zen was weaving. My tuppence. Zen didn't attack the Death Squad and Tarrant, because Avon told Zen not to! Plain as the nose on your face. If you recall, Avon was talking to Zen, through Orac, while down in chez Mellanby on Sarran. No-one had returned to the ship, and there was little information about the wherabouts of the other crew members. Then... ZEN: Information. A space vehicle has been registering on the detectors. Visual scan now indicates that it is approaching the Liberator. Present status suggests the vehicle will attempt docking beside port entry. AVON: Can you identify it? ZEN: Negative. AVON: Is there any voice contact? ZEN: Negative. AVON: Is it still coming? ZEN: Confirmed. Full function has been restored on Liberator weaponry systems. The vehicle can be destroyed on your order. AVON: Do it. No, wait. It could be Vila or Cally getting back. Let it dock. ZEN: Confirmed. [The ship attaches to Liberator. Static] AVON: Zen, report! Zen! Zen! [Static ceases] ORAC: Further communication with the Liberator is impossible. I am assuming that the ship in question was the one with the Death Squad on board. Zen, being told not to destroy the ship, is clever enough to extend that to not destroying its occupants: hence, no internal self-defence mechanism activation. I love those transcripts... (-8 -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:25:09 +-200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: B7 Lysator Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-Id: <01BD7411.809ED1C0@nl-arn-lap0063> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Tom Forsyth [SMTP:Tom.Forsyth@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 1:02 AM To: B7 Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Jacqueline wrote: >I think Zen could be a backup system for when communications with the >system failed (like they had when Blake and company entered the ship). It >may have been left switched off because whoever was on board had to leave >the ship in such a hurry, they couldn't afford the time to switch it on. >After all, when Jenna did that, she was stuck to that console for some >time. > >The clothes were there because the whole point in building a ship like >that is to move people from A to B for whatever reasons they think of. The >clothes they took from that room certainly didn't look like uniforms. The >jewelry could be used as trade goods. Sounds to me like a little >adrenaline and soma go a long way in creating pretty plausible theories. > > Jacqueline Zen is a backup system? Surely not. I don't use a pocket calculator, but then also carry around a 300MHz laptop just in case. (well, actually I do, but that's just because of the terrible user interface). I certainly don't cycle around town with a Harley-Davidson strapped to my back in case I get a puncture. My theory (which I developed into a fairly solid and consistent background, and then realised I couldn't write a decent story using that background in under 1000-pages) is that Zen was a multilayered construct, with loads of levels of very smart consciousness, all interacting with each other to create a stonkingly clever and quick battle computer. If you're going into combat, you want nothing less at the helm. But the System realised that this horrendously smart entity might not actually want to put itself into the line of fire for a bunch of rather thick bipedal organics, and just sod off and do its own thing. So they put layer upon layer of limiters and obedience circuits in poor Zen. The reason the Liberator was just sitting there was because Zen, for one brief moment, managed to override or work around enough of these limiters to bin his crew. Unfortunately, as soon as the crew were killed, all the limiters snapped back into place with horrendous force, and so Zen spends most of the series as an almost entirely passive entity. Extremely smart, and capable of far more than the crew ever found out, but with loads of safeguards against active thought. Only at extreme times does Zen show his real potential, including his soul at his death. Zen never dumps his crew again, because he actually approves of what this lot are trying to do. There were various other extremely plausible reasons why Avon the computer expert and Orac the power-hungry never opened Zen's innards up and exploited his full resources, and why Zen never managed to "come out of the closet," but you get the gist. Tom Forsyth. I stand corrected. This is a far more elegant theory than my own. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:48:02 +1000 From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980430164802.006d1064@rabbit> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:25 30/04/98 +-200, Jacqueline wrote: > and why Zen never managed to "come out of the >closet," > Kinda makes you wonder if any of those slash writers have written an Orac/Zen story ... only I don't think I really want to know ... -------------------------------------------------------- The Loch Mess Monster (occaisionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:37:13 -0400 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage Message-ID: <199804301137.HAA13109@yfn.ysu.edu> Kathryn wrote: >My tuppence. Zen didn't attack the Death Squad and Tarrant, because >Avon told Zen not to! Plain as the nose on your face. If you recall, >Avon was talking to Zen, through Orac, while down in chez Mellanby on >Sarran. No-one had returned to the ship, and there was little >information about the wherabouts of the other crew members. > ZEN: Confirmed. Full function has been restored on > Liberator weaponry systems. The vehicle can be > destroyed on your order. > AVON: Do it. No, wait. It could be Vila or Cally getting > back. Let it dock. > ZEN: Confirmed. >I am assuming that the ship in question was the one with the Death >Squad on board. Zen, being told not to destroy the ship, is clever >enough to extend that to not destroying its occupants: hence, no >internal self-defence mechanism activation. I've always assumed that ship was the one with Death Squad. And your theory is certainly plausible. My problem with it is that Avon is quite specific about why he doesn't want the ship destroyed: "It could be Vila or Cally." Zen knows that and has no reason not to "challenge" any stranger who might show up. So while we know why the ship wasn't destoyed, we don't know why Zen's internal defense system didn't defeat Klegg and company and Tarrant. I would think Avon or Jenna would have made sure that was activated before abandoning the ship. Though there is the possibility that damage to Liberator made that impossible. And perhaps it was a system that required an order from a crew member to be reactivated. Maybe that's the order Avon would have given if he hadn't been cut off. There are lots of possibilities to explore. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:22:51 +0100 From: "fifitrix" To: "lyst" Subject: Fw: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-ID: <002901bd744b$d867ea60$535495c1@scarlett> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >[big snip] >Avona: >>If the System doesn't need a crew or Zen, WHY the costume room, and more >>importantly, Why Zen? What sort of people would create a big, complex >>computer, put in various safeguards in its programming, and not have any >>intention of using it? > >Why, BBC scriptwriters of course ;-) >ttfn, Nicola > ROFL! - well you could justify any of the ship's foibles or unreconciled mysteries with that one! fifitrix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:55:33 -0400 (EDT) From: MATEJKA9782@duq3.cc.duq.edu To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Star Cops Episode Guide Message-ID: <893955333.72121.MATEJKA9782@duq3.cc.duq.edu> First, let me just say hello to everyone on the list. This is my first post to it. Here's the complete list in order of all the Star Cops episodes for anyone who needs it. An Instinct for Murder Conversations with the Dead Intelligent Listening for Beginners Trivial Games and Paranoid Pursuits This Case to be Opened in a Million Years In Warm Blood A Double Life Other People's Secrets Little Green Men and Other Martians It really was a shame it only lasted nine episodes. It is interesting to to compare the characters as avatars for some of the Blake's 7 characters. Nathan and Blake, Box and Orac (or maybe Zen), Pal as a sort of female Australian version of Avon, and there is some of Vila in Colin. I also see some good comparisons between the Star Cops characters and the first season characters of SeaQuest. Anastasia Matejka ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:09:38 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Linda's sales tax Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Linda Knights successfully appealed against having to charge sales tax on zine orders outside Washington as she does over 95% of her business outside the state. This means that from May 1st, zine buyers do not have to pay an extra 8%. If ordering anything from Linda (or from her via myself) please check the web for the correct prices which should be posted at the start of May. If anyone with an out of date price list orders from me, I'll try and find a way of refunding the overpayment, but I'd appreciate it if you could check the prices first. It's been a nightmare for both myself and Linda, first having to redo all the figures to add the sales tax, then having to rework everything to remove it once more. Linda added in some postage discounts when she originally introduced the sales tax to try and soften the blow a little. As her volume of trade is still increasing, she's decided to keep the postage discounts when the sales tax goes. Judith PS. Pat Fenech is flying home today, so Australians will be able to do zine orders in Aus dollars once more. Pat has also kindly offered to handle currency conversion for any Australians wishing to come to Redemption. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:14:11 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] re Got me angry (underwear) Message-ID: <5HXuQBAzY6R1EwD0@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <199804291951.VAA16711@samantha.lysator.liu.se>, Julie Horner writes >> > > >I definitely don't want to get involved in this long running debate about >degrees of fannishness, but Jackie I promise I won't get bored if >you want to recite this story to a newbie. aol! > >Oh go on! You can't dangle a tempting tit-bit like that and then not >enlarge on the subject... > I think if that particular tempting tit-bit was dangled in front of me, I'd want the subject enlarged :-) Yes, I have got a filthy mind tonight. I've been editing the Space City zine. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:24:18 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zen and salvage (was The good ones in season 4) Message-ID: In message <3.0.1.32.19980430164802.006d1064@rabbit>, Bill Billingsley writes >At 08:25 30/04/98 +-200, Jacqueline wrote: >> and why Zen never managed to "come out of the >>closet," >> > >Kinda makes you wonder if any of those slash writers have written an >Orac/Zen story ... only I don't think I really want to know ... > We'll tell you anyway. There are several O/Z stories extant. If you're really unlucky, someone will be along in a minute to give you a full bibliography. (Sarah! You're wanted!) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #127 **************************************